Want to re-do entertainment system

[04Terminator]

About a month or two after I bought my 2016 track pack GT350 in December of 2015, I was so disappointed in the stereo system, I haphazardly purchased a bunch of Alpine gear and a Zenclosures subwoofer box. I bought all Alpine because I had it in my 96 GT years ago and was pretty satisfied. I figured, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I've since realized there's a whole world outside Alpine. lol Here's what I purchased:

Front and rear speakers - SPR 60 and 60c
2 12 subs - SWR 12D2
5 channel Amp - PDX V9
Rux knob

I have been talking to an audio installer who says he will need to modify the speaker adapters or build his own because the Alpines are listed as either too tall or too wide for my car. He also says (and I knew this because my original plan was a Stealthbox and planned on addressing the change later with a sub amp after purchasing the Alpine subs) the PDX V9 amp is not sufficient for the subs I have. It can be used but he recommeded I add another amp later on. He says if it were him, he would have forgone the rear speakers and put that part of the budget toward better front components with a better crossover. Now I'm beginning to regret all of my purchases and am thinking of scrapping all of it and starting over with new stuff.

As for stereo/head unit, he recommended Pioneer MVH-1400NEX or AVH-W4400NEX. I'm undecided on if I want to spend $400 more for a few more perks I may not even use. He said I would have plugs in the console that won't actually do anything if I go with the 1400NEX. He seems to be stuck on Pioneer. I haven't delved too deeply but there must be other options in between these two that would be satisfactory?

And, of course, he recommended the Metra kit and said firmware updates have resolved most issues people were having.

So my question is, should I start over, keep some of it...all of it...add something? I am honestly torn and confused. This stuff wasn't so difficult 10 years ago. lol Thanks in advance!

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[Nagare]

Based on threads I've seen in the past, I'll start out with some basic questions to help you decide:

- Are you looking for sound quality or just amount of sound? More bass?
- Anything in particular you don't care for from your current set up?

 

[ahl395]

Well, I'll bring up several points that come to mind. But I think you're fine using what you bought already. No reason to start fresh.

That amp will be fine to power the speakers but it is way too weak to power those subwoofers. I would use that amp for your speakers and buy another amp for the subs. That way you can use what you have and it will save you money in the long run. Just buy a monoblock for the subs.

The speakers are the correct size (6.5"), depth may be an issue if they interfere with the window. You can usually buy a speaker trim ring to use as a spacer, or modify the factory speaker bracket. The tweeters will almost definitely need to be modified to fit. Remove the pillars, remove the tweeters and you can dremel out the hole larger to fit an aftermarket tweeter.

Rear speakers are often called "rear fill" speakers because they are not that important for the sound quality and many people (including myself in the past) dont use them. However if you want the "surround sound" feel, you will want them. Personally I like to run rear speakers.

Do you WANT to change the head unit? If so, I am partial to Pioneer myself. However there is no reason to change it. The aftermarket system can be used with the factory head unit without a problem. You just need a harness from @HextallS550 to get all your RCAs that you will need to hook up the aftermarket amps.

Feel free to take a look at my sound system build in my signature if you need any ideas.

 

[04Terminator]

Based on threads I've seen in the past, I'll start out with some basic questions to help you decide:

- Are you looking for sound quality or just amount of sound? More bass?
- Anything in particular you don't care for from your current set up?

1. Bass
2. No bass

lol Seriously, there's NONE. However, I want to upgrade the speakers, too. Just not sure which ones to go with. Nothing ear piercing. I hear Focal can be quite harsh?

 

[04Terminator]

Well, I'll bring up several points that come to mind. But I think you're fine using what you bought already. No reason to start fresh.

That amp will be fine to power the speakers but it is way too weak to power those subwoofers. I would use that amp for your speakers and buy another amp for the subs. That way you can use what you have and it will save you money in the long run. Just buy a monoblock for the subs.

The speakers are the correct size (6.5"), depth may be an issue if they interfere with the window. You can usually buy a speaker trim ring to use as a spacer, or modify the factory speaker bracket. The tweeters will almost definitely need to be modified to fit. Remove the pillars, remove the tweeters and you can dremel out the hole larger to fit an aftermarket tweeter.

Rear speakers are often called "rear fill" speakers because they are not that important for the sound quality and many people (including myself in the past) dont use them. However if you want the "surround sound" feel, you will want them. Personally I like to run rear speakers.

Do you WANT to change the head unit? If so, I am partial to Pioneer myself. However there is no reason to change it. The aftermarket system can be used with the factory head unit without a problem. You just need a harness from @HextallS550 to get all your RCAs that you will need to hook up the aftermarket amps.

Feel free to take a look at my sound system build in my signature if you need any ideas.

Thank you for your feedback.

The installer did say he could make them fit, he'd just have to modify some stuff. Based on the quote he gave me for everything, I don't think the cost is unreasonable. I'm just wondering now if I don't want a different set of front speakers. Alpine used to be the shit, but not so anymore, I guess. And honestly, I'm kind of wanting to try something new. I have been informed my sub box (Zenclosures) isn't optimal for the subs. I don't want to put the subs in this box only to find it sounds lousy or boomy. Zenclosures said those subs would be fine in their box which is why I bought it. Regardless, I will be adding a mono amp.

YES, I want a new head unit. I want a touch screen and video capability for my passengers. Do you think the cheaper Pioneer unit I listed is satisfactory for my requirements? The installer was talking about wireless being the way to go and suggested a more expensive unit but honestly, I don't think I need anything that fancy. Wireless is nice but not necessary. I don't drive the car enough to really care. That being said, I may go with the more expensive one if funds are available.

I will definitely check out your build thread. Thank you again for your help!

 

[ahl395]

Thank you for your feedback.

The installer did say he could make them fit, he'd just have to modify some stuff. Based on the quote he gave me for everything, I don't think the cost is unreasonable. I'm just wondering now if I don't want a different set of front speakers. Alpine used to be the shit, but not so anymore, I guess. And honestly, I'm kind of wanting to try something new. I have been informed my sub box (Zenclosures) isn't optimal for the subs. I don't want to put the subs in this box only to find it sounds lousy or boomy. Zenclosures said those subs would be fine in their box which is why I bought it. Regardless, I will be adding a mono amp.

YES, I want a new head unit. I want a touch screen and video capability for my passengers. Do you think the cheaper Pioneer unit I listed is satisfactory for my requirements? The installer was talking about wireless being the way to go and suggested a more expensive unit but honestly, I don't think I need anything that fancy. Wireless is nice but not necessary. I don't drive the car enough to really care. That being said, I may go with the more expensive one if funds are available.

I will definitely check out your build thread. Thank you again for your help!

Alpine is still a decent brand IMO, but I've never owned a pair of their speakers personally. For cheaper speakers I've always been happy with Rockford Fosgate, for more expensive I've been happy Hertz and Focal. I don't see a reason to scrap the ones you already have though unless you already know that you wont be happy with them.

What Zenclosures box is it and what are the cu.ft. volume? That way we can determine if the subs pair up nicely with the box or not.

The cheaper Pioneer looks completely fine to me. No reason to spend more if you don't want the extra features. The cheaper will give you all the outputs you need to run the amps, etc.

 

[04Terminator]

Alpine is still a decent brand IMO, but I've never owned a pair of their speakers personally. For cheaper speakers I've always been happy with Rockford Fosgate, for more expensive I've been happy Hertz and Focal. I don't see a reason to scrap the ones you already have though unless you already know that you wont be happy with them.

What Zenclosures box is it and what are the cu.ft. volume? That way we can determine if the subs pair up nicely with the box or not.

The cheaper Pioneer looks completely fine to me. No reason to spend more if you don't want the extra features. The cheaper will give you all the outputs you need to run the amps, etc.

Thank you so much for your reply.

This is the box I got, only I see the prices have dropped. Of course! https://www.zenclosures.com/2015-Mustang-Subwoofer-Box-p/mustang15t2rf.htm

Do any of those speakers you mention fit without modification? I'll mull the head unit over a while longer.

 

[ahl395]

Thank you so much for your reply.

This is the box I got, only I see the prices have dropped. Of course! https://www.zenclosures.com/2015-Mustang-Subwoofer-Box-p/mustang15t2rf.htm

Do any of those speakers you mention fit without modification? I'll mull the head unit over a while longer.

The box lists 0.87cuft. per sub. The subs sealed enclosure recommendation is 0.5-1cuft. So that box matches perfectly.

Any speaker that's 6.5" will "fit" the size. However depth and actual mounting holes measurement differ between speakers.

 

[kh1818]

I was also frustrated with the painfully obvious lack of any bass from the base model stereo system in our s550's. However, I did not want to invest in a complete overhaul of the system. So after researching on this forum, I decided to take my chances with doing the bare minimum/least effort setup. I got the Rockford Fosgate P300-12 system (which sits snug against the rear seats in the trunk), and paid a shop $200 to install it, with the source of the sound just tapped into the rear speakers. I was concerned that I would be disappointed as this is apparently the worst way to set up a sub, but I am very pleasantly surprised. I dialed in the sub to the settings which work best for me, and in my opinion the system sounds good to me - no more complaints. Just my $0.02c.

 

[mumbles]

The box lists 0.87cuft. per sub. The subs sealed enclosure recommendation is 0.5-1cuft. So that box matches perfectly.

Any speaker that's 6.5" will "fit" the size. However depth and actual mounting holes measurement differ between speakers.

I would agree with this ^^^ the box should be fine for those subs. However, it all depends on what kind of bass you prefer... if you like a tight, controlled foundation to your music, this box will work. If you want boomy, in-your-face bass, probably not. You can always mount them up and see what it sounds like after adjusting your low-pass filter. If you think you need more bass after that, make yourself some .75" mounting rings to put in the boxes recessed mounting location. It won't give the subs a ton more space, but at least you won't have to sell the speakers/box and start over.

 

[xraystyle]

I would agree with this ^^^ the box should be fine for those subs. However, it all depends on what kind of bass you prefer... if you like a tight, controlled foundation to your music, this box will work. If you want boomy, in-your-face bass, probably not. You can always mount them up and see what it sounds like after adjusting your low-pass filter. If you think you need more bass after that, make yourself some .75" mounting rings to put in the boxes recessed mounting location. It won't give the subs a ton more space, but at least you won't have to sell the speakers/box and start over.

I'm running a single JL Audio 12TW3-D4 in a Phantom Fit box (same as a JL Stealthbox, just cheaper) on the right side of the trunk and that thing pounds hard. With two 12s I can't imagine that there wouldn't be enough bass in that car, but the amp might be an issue.

Between my sub and the new set of 2-way components up front (Image Dynamics CXS64 v.2), I'm not even sure how loud it will get. I can turn it up to the point of physical pain without distorting and there's still more room to go up on the volume knob.

The only thing I would be concerned about in OP's setup is that the PDX V9 won't be enough amp to run two of those Alpine 12's. They're two ohm DVC's, they're designed to handle some serious power. Seeing as how the subs are rated for 300-1000 watts RMS power, and you'd only be getting 250 watts per sub (500 watts total from the amp's sub channel), you'll be underpowering them. Underpowering a speaker can damage it. The Crutchfield website actually recommends a 750-1500 watt monoblock amp for a single one of those subs. I'd agree that's a better wattage range for these things.

If you really like that sub in particular and want to stick with that amp, I'd recommend finding an enclosure for a single 12" and selling the 2nd sub, but you still wouldn't really be getting the most out of that speaker.

Ideally, if you're really married to that amp (it does look like a nice amp), I'd recommend either finding two 12"s that handle about 250-300 watts RMS each, like this guy: https://www.crutchfield.com/p_13612TW14/JL-Audio-12TW1-4.html?tp=68897, or sell both your current subs and enclosure, then pick up a single 12" sub box and a sub that'll handle between five and six hundred watts RMS.

 

[04Terminator]

The box lists 0.87cuft. per sub. The subs sealed enclosure recommendation is 0.5-1cuft. So that box matches perfectly.

Any speaker that's 6.5" will "fit" the size. However depth and actual mounting holes measurement differ between speakers.

Well that's very good news then. Thank you! The installer quoted me a bit over $2000 for everything, including a Pioneer head unit and Metra dash kit. I may jump on it soon!

I was also frustrated with the painfully obvious lack of any bass from the base model stereo system in our s550's. However, I did not want to invest in a complete overhaul of the system. So after researching on this forum, I decided to take my chances with doing the bare minimum/least effort setup. I got the Rockford Fosgate P300-12 system (which sits snug against the rear seats in the trunk), and paid a shop $200 to install it, with the source of the sound just tapped into the rear speakers. I was concerned that I would be disappointed as this is apparently the worst way to set up a sub, but I am very pleasantly surprised. I dialed in the sub to the settings which work best for me, and in my opinion the system sounds good to me - no more complaints. Just my $0.02c.

Thank you for that. A few years ago, that was my plan, too. I just didn't know how it would sound and was afraid I'd be disappointed. If I didn't think I needed a new head unit (want a touchscreen!) I'd probably go this route, as well.

I would agree with this ^^^ the box should be fine for those subs. However, it all depends on what kind of bass you prefer... if you like a tight, controlled foundation to your music, this box will work. If you want boomy, in-your-face bass, probably not. You can always mount them up and see what it sounds like after adjusting your low-pass filter. If you think you need more bass after that, make yourself some .75" mounting rings to put in the boxes recessed mounting location. It won't give the subs a ton more space, but at least you won't have to sell the speakers/box and start over.

Excellent! I didn't know you could do that. I like options. At this point, ANY bass is okay with me.

I'm running a single JL Audio 12TW3-D4 in a Phantom Fit box (same as a JL Stealthbox, just cheaper) on the right side of the trunk and that thing pounds hard. With two 12s I can't imagine that there wouldn't be enough bass in that car, but the amp might be an issue.

Between my sub and the new set of 2-way components up front (Image Dynamics CXS64 v.2), I'm not even sure how loud it will get. I can turn it up to the point of physical pain without distorting and there's still more room to go up on the volume knob.

The only thing I would be concerned about in OP's setup is that the PDX V9 won't be enough amp to run two of those Alpine 12's. They're two ohm DVC's, they're designed to handle some serious power. Seeing as how the subs are rated for 300-1000 watts RMS power, and you'd only be getting 250 watts per sub (500 watts total from the amp's sub channel), you'll be underpowering them. Underpowering a speaker can damage it. The Crutchfield website actually recommends a 750-1500 watt monoblock amp for a single one of those subs. I'd agree that's a better wattage range for these things.

If you really like that sub in particular and want to stick with that amp, I'd recommend finding an enclosure for a single 12" and selling the 2nd sub, but you still wouldn't really be getting the most out of that speaker.

Ideally, if you're really married to that amp (it does look like a nice amp), I'd recommend either finding two 12"s that handle about 250-300 watts RMS each, like this guy: https://www.crutchfield.com/p_13612TW14/JL-Audio-12TW1-4.html?tp=68897, or sell both your current subs and enclosure, then pick up a single 12" sub box and a sub that'll handle between five and six hundred watts RMS.

Thank you! You're right; the amp is not sufficient, I know. The installer recommended a mono amp, too. Just with the $2k quote he gave me I'm pushing it with my budget. Of course I HAVE the money, just making myself part with it is the problem. The box and subs I have are SO heavy. I kind of like the idea of less weight, tbh. Last time I had a big system in a Mustang, the rear end was almost sagging from the weight.

I'l check out the JL subs you linked to. Thanks again!

 

[ahl395]

I kind of like the idea of less weight, tbh. Last time I had a big system in a Mustang, the rear end was almost sagging from the weight.

Lol, I had to get two of Steeda's thickest spring spacers welded together and installed on each side of the rear to keep my car level.

 

[UserName]

Seeing as how the subs are rated for 300-1000 watts RMS power, and you'd only be getting 250 watts per sub (500 watts total from the amp's sub channel), you'll be underpowering them. Underpowering a speaker can damage it.

It’s unlikely You’ll ever damage a speaker by powering it with less wattage than it’s RMS rating while using it within the manufacturer specs. If that was the case we wouldn’t be able to ever turn it down. What can, and most likely will damage speakers given enough time, is overdriving an underpowered amp into clipping. Clipping is bad.

 

[xraystyle]

It’s unlikely You’ll ever damage a speaker by powering it with less wattage than it’s RMS rating while using it within the manufacturer specs. If that was the case we wouldn’t be able to ever turn it down. What can, and most likely will damage speakers given enough time, is overdriving an underpowered amp into clipping. Clipping is bad.

Yes, clipping is bad, and this is why you're more likely to damage a speaker while underpowering it. The subs OP listed require a lot of watts, and he'd probably have to crank that amp into clipping to get to the desired volume with those subs.

It's all about that clean headroom, yo.

Generally if you have an amp that puts out more juice than a set of speakers is rated for it's not that big of a problem because the speakers get plenty loud before you're overdoing it, unless you have low RMS speaks and a REALLY hot amplifier.

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