Road and Track Article on the PP2 - It's not a track car

[Hi-PO Stang]

I am thinking I could have a great track Mustang by routing the exhaust away from the rear differential and by installing some blackmarket software to raise the temp limits for the differential and trans sensors. Now, where or who could provide the software to prevent the Engine going into limp mode ?

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[sigintel]

I am thinking I could have a great track Mustang by routing the exhaust away from the rear differential and by installing some blackmarket software to raise the temp limits for the differential and trans sensors. Now, where or who could provide the software to prevent the Engine going into limp mode ?

No software needed, measure the sensor or get the manufacturers datasheet for it.
Either PTC , NTC or other low cost type sensor. Just measure resistance cold and hot and replace with a resistor of value in between.
You need to plan on changing diff oil often, and if you get it really hot, you risk dumping diff oil on track.
If you dump diff oil on track, be prepared for a $$$ clean up bill from track.

 

[jake_zx2]

I am thinking I could have a great track Mustang by routing the exhaust away from the rear differential and by installing some blackmarket software to raise the temp limits for the differential and trans sensors. Now, where or who could provide the software to prevent the Engine going into limp mode ?

x2 on no need for software changes, but I wouldn't even change the sensor. Just heat wrap the exhaust beside the diff, swap for a higher viscosity diff fluid, and you should be good. The first warning won't send you into limp mode, and I've only heard of a couple people ever hitting the second warning or dumping diff fluid all over the track. If you're going to invest in new sensors and software changes and stuff like that, save yourself some time and spend $1k on a diff cooler

 

[Mountain376]

Probably because the "overheating" is a made up issue. But what would I know, not like I've ever driven an S550 on track or anything :shrug:

Oh, OK...


Because you, yourself, don't see it, it isn't a thing?

x2 on no need for software changes, but I wouldn't even change the sensor. Just heat wrap the exhaust beside the diff, swap for a higher viscosity diff fluid, and you should be good. The first warning won't send you into limp mode, and I've only heard of a couple people ever hitting the second warning or dumping diff fluid all over the track. If you're going to invest in new sensors and software changes and stuff like that, save yourself some time and spend $1k on a diff cooler

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/2018-gt-pp2-rear-differential-overheating-issue.106844/
https://trackmustangsonline.com/threads/what-‘r’-you-doing-steveespo.13542/page-4

 

[jake_zx2]

Ah yes, 2 examples of people who didn't do either of the easy fixes I already suggested, and one of which never even hit critical temps, with the other being a modified car.

What I mean by a "made up issue" is that people are talking about it like its so detrimental that it'll happen during normal street driving and that there's no fix to it. It's quite easy to fix, and only really happens under very specific circumstances

 

[mustang5o]

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/for...t-performance-pack-level-2-first-test-review/

Some positive notes in there, good comparisons to the GT350/GT350R and especially the PP1. Complaints regarding the body control, steering, and tramlining.

Good that you can look at the positive in that review but all I can hear is "the Camaro SS 1LE is still the best all-around pony car available". If it can beat the PP2 on a more street style tire vs SC2's...it's a little disgraceful. C'mon Ford, get it together. Give us a car that will beat the Camaro for the same price!!!

 

[jake_zx2]

Good that you can look at the positive in that review but all I can hear is "the Camaro SS 1LE is still the best all-around pony car available". If it can beat the PP2 on a more street style tire vs SC2's...it's a little disgraceful. C'mon Ford, get it together. Give us a car that will beat the Camaro for the same price!!!

"more street style tire" is misleading. Sure, it's not rated as an R compound tire, but realistically, it has about the same treadwear rating as the SC2 and puts down similar numbers. I'm no tire engineer, so I don't know what the contribution of different in compounds would be, but for all intents and purposes, they're a similarly performing tire

 

[mustang5o]

"more street style tire" is misleading. Sure, it's not rated as an R compound tire, but realistically, it has about the same treadwear rating as the SC2 and puts down similar numbers. I'm no tire engineer, so I don't know what the contribution of different in compounds would be, but for all intents and purposes, they're a similarly performing tire

Well I presume Randy knows his tires pretty well and when he said "This Camaro SS 1LE is a terrific car to drive on track—almost unbelievably good considering it's on a Goodyear Eagle F1 tire, which is a pure street tire. It's not an R-compound track tire." I wanted to believe him. When I look them up on tire rack the Goodyear is listed at 220TW and under Extreme Performance Summer category vs the SC2 180TW and listed under Streetable Track and Competition. I know tread wear doesn't tell the whole story as I've been told the RE71R 200TW Extreme Performance Summer is an overachiever...at least for a few laps. So you might be right. Later in the article Randy throws in "the Mustang's twitchy entry attitude and its pesky stability control system were no match for the composure and confidence supplied by the Camaro SS 1LE—even on a street tire. Can you imagine what the Camaro would do on a Pilot Sport Cup 2?" Reinforces that he believes the SC2 is a better track tire than the Eagle F1.

 

[millhouse]

Well I presume Randy knows his tires pretty well and when he said "This Camaro SS 1LE is a terrific car to drive on track—almost unbelievably good considering it's on a Goodyear Eagle F1 tire, which is a pure street tire. It's not an R-compound track tire." I wanted to believe him. When I look them up on tire rack the Goodyear is listed at 220TW and under Extreme Performance Summer category vs the SC2 180TW and listed under Streetable Track and Competition. I know tread wear doesn't tell the whole story as I've been told the RE71R 200TW Extreme Performance Summer is an overachiever...at least for a few laps. So you might be right. Later in the article Randy throws in "the Mustang's twitchy entry attitude and its pesky stability control system were no match for the composure and confidence supplied by the Camaro SS 1LE—even on a street tire. Can you imagine what the Camaro would do on a Pilot Sport Cup 2?" Reinforces that he believes the SC2 is a better track tire than the Eagle F1.

The supercar 3 tires are sticky AF. Compare them against the PS4 tires on the 2018 PP1:

"As for burnouts, the orange Ford literally, figuratively, and ever other way smoked the Chevy. In a way, this is actually good news for the 1LE. Here's why: The Camaro can do about one, maybe two decent burnouts, and then the Goodyears get hot to the point where they "grip up," to steal a term from Randy Pobst. It's enough grip that 455 lb-ft of twisting force has trouble breaking 'em loose. This is slightly surprising."

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/che...-ford-mustang-gt-performance-pack-comparison/

Compare the supercars to the SC2 tires and you'll see they both have similar treadwear, similar tread depth and similar weight. The main difference in these two tires is the title the manufacturers give them. Just because one is labeled a "track/street" tire and the other a "Extreme Performance" summer tires does not mean they don't perform similarly. There is a ton of overlap in these tires. Hell, my "ultra high performance" Indy firehawk 500 tires have better traction and are more predictable than the "max performance" pirelli tires.

 

[jake_zx2]

Well I presume Randy knows his tires pretty well and when he said "This Camaro SS 1LE is a terrific car to drive on track—almost unbelievably good considering it's on a Goodyear Eagle F1 tire, which is a pure street tire. It's not an R-compound track tire." I wanted to believe him. When I look them up on tire rack the Goodyear is listed at 220TW and under Extreme Performance Summer category vs the SC2 180TW and listed under Streetable Track and Competition. I know tread wear doesn't tell the whole story as I've been told the RE71R 200TW Extreme Performance Summer is an overachiever...at least for a few laps. So you might be right. Later in the article Randy throws in "the Mustang's twitchy entry attitude and its pesky stability control system were no match for the composure and confidence supplied by the Camaro SS 1LE—even on a street tire. Can you imagine what the Camaro would do on a Pilot Sport Cup 2?" Reinforces that he believes the SC2 is a better track tire than the Eagle F1.

There are quite a few things like this that I've heard Randy say that make me scratch my head. He's an excellent driver, but he's no engineer. The tires are marketed as a street tire, but in reality (Like Millhouse said), they are very close in every aspect to a SC2. also, are you sure you looked at the F1 Supercar3? I'm pretty sure the F1 Assymetrical has a 220tw, but the supercar3 should be a 200tw, and that's what the 1LE has. SC2 should be around 190-200.

Also, yes, RE71R is an excellent tire, especially for the price.

 

[Norm Peterson]

There are quite a few things like this that I've heard Randy say that make me scratch my head. He's an excellent driver, but he's no engineer. The tires are marketed as a street tire, but in reality (Like Millhouse said), they are very close in every aspect to a SC2. also, are you sure you looked at the F1 Supercar3? I'm pretty sure the F1 Assymetrical has a 220tw, but the supercar3 should be a 200tw, and that's what the 1LE has. SC2 should be around 190-200.

Also, yes, RE71R is an excellent tire, especially for the price.

The GY 3's are 220 treadwear and the PSC2's are 180 treadwear. GY's Asymmetric is 240, and the 'regular' Asymmetric 2's and 3's are both 300. Asymmetric 2 and 3 run-flats are 240.

There can be considerable treadwear rating variation among mfrs, and variation even among tire models by the same mfr is at least possible. Sometimes tires are even given a lower treadwear rating for marketing purposes (the Subie in my sig came with 160-treadwear tires . . . that lasted 35,000 miles, despite a lot of less-than-gentle driving) At a 40 point difference you'd need to do some A-B-A testing to sort things out.

The GY 3's were designed to work specifically with the Camaro. This would have involved more than just suiting choices in springs/shocks/struts/sta-bars/wheel widths. They might not work precisely the same if fitted to an S550.


Norm

 

[Mountain376]

Ah yes, 2 examples of people who didn't do either of the easy fixes I already suggested, and one of which never even hit critical temps, with the other being a modified car.

What I mean by a "made up issue" is that people are talking about it like its so detrimental that it'll happen during normal street driving and that there's no fix to it. It's quite easy to fix, and only really happens under very specific circumstances

I think you just discredited yourself on this subject.

 

[FastCarFanBoy]

Didn't someone do a test with the Trofeo R's off a Z28 on a 1LE last gen or vice versa and they made very litle difference in lap times?

 

[martinjlm]

Didn't someone do a test with the Trofeo R's off a Z28 on a 1LE last gen or vice versa and they made very litle difference in lap times?

That wouldn't be too surprising, since Z/28 and 5th Gen 1LE are the same basic chassis. The Trofeo Rs were more than likely tuned specific to the Z/28 chassis. As someone mentioned earlier in this thread, GM does that. A lot. The same gen 1LE chassis would be close enough to not register a lot of difference putting Z/28 purposed tires on a 1LE. When I eventually replace my Eagle F1s, I will more than likely replace them with Eagle F1s because I don't want to have the experience of spending several hundred $$ only to find out that my car's setup minimizes the gains I might get from going to a different tire.

 

[nastang87xx]

Tread wear rating has become a complete joke and bureaucratic nightmare especially in competition rings. 200 vs 300 vs 500 vs 49839039292...all it's saying is a 400 will last "twice as long as a 200". I could make a tire that's as sticky as Ho Ho R7's, give em some tread patterns to pass DOT, call em 200 and then make a tire that's pure streetable in the range of a Conti ExtremeContact Sport and call them 400 and you know what I'd still be right even though it's and absolutely ridiculous and unethical judgement call.

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