Track Days Per Set of Tires - Michelin PS4S

[SgdriskillGT]

How many track days are people getting out of their Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires before they're spent?

I'm 3 track days in on my first set of these tires with my 2018 GT PP1 (four 20-30 min sessions per track day) 5K miles on the tires overall. All tires are between 7/32 and 8/32 tread depth left. I think these tires start with 9.5/32 tread. Some simple math estimates I'll get 8-9 track days per set of these tires.
-assume changing tires at 4/32 = 5.5/32 usable tread over tires lifetime
-0.67/32 tread wear per track day so far
-5.5/0.67 = 8.25 track days per set of tires

What are other people seeing?

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[TDC]

How many track days are people getting out of their Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires before they're spent?

I'm 3 track days in on my first set of these tires with my 2018 GT PP1 (four 20-30 min sessions per track day) 5K miles on the tires overall. All tires are between 7/32 and 8/32 tread depth left. I think these tires start with 9.5/32 tread. Some simple math estimates I'll get 8-9 track days per set of these tires.
-assume changing tires at 4/32 = 5.5/32 usable tread over tires lifetime
-0.67/32 tread wear per track day so far
-5.5/0.67 = 8.25 track days per set of tires

What are other people seeing?

Depends on how hard you push it and front camber. I believe for running 8/10's of the car's ability and 2-3 degrees of front camber you'd get 12 - 14. My RE-11's are at 10 days (some runs were missed due to heavy rain) and they have another 3 days left IMO. My MPSS's had many autox runs & 6 track days before I switched them out with about 1/2 life left on them for the RE11's.

 

[EFI]

Sounds about right. I have ~ 5 full track days on a set and some 7k street miles and I want to say they are a little bit more than halfway done.

Without any street driving, you should be getting 8-10 track days out of them given you don't run extreme alignment.

 

[dmann]

The rule of thumb is about 2-3 pair of front to on pair in the rear. I haven't track mine yet but will let you know in Oct and Nov as i have 4 days lined up within 2 weeks

Do these tires allow for bidirectional rotating, meaning rotate the RF to the RL and vis versa without remounting them?

 

[SgdriskillGT]

The rule of thumb is about 2-3 pair of front to on pair in the rear. I haven't track mine yet but will let you know in Oct and Nov as i have 4 days lined up within 2 weeks

Do these tires allow for bidirectional rotating, meaning rotate the RF to the RL and vis versa without remounting them?

Yes, you can bidirectionally rotate.

 

[SgdriskillGT]

Sounds about right. I have ~ 5 full track days on a set and some 7k street miles and I want to say they are a little bit more than halfway done.

Without any street driving, you should be getting 8-10 track days out of them given you don't run extreme alignment.

Would you consider the PP1 alignment extreme?

 

[EFI]

Would you consider the PP1 alignment extreme?

No, it's pretty milld.

Extreme I'm talking about 3.0+ camber, I think stock is under 1.5

 

[SgdriskillGT]

No, it's pretty milld.

Extreme I'm talking about 3.0+ camber, I think stock is under 1.5

Got it, thanks. Yea I’m trying to find out the PP1 alignment numbers. Can’t find in the manual.

 

[DickR]

2018 Mustang alignment specs

 

[DickR]

My understanding from both tire testers and others is that for camber limited cars overall tire expense may be reduced by using Extreme Performance Tires for track and maybe even street because they are less sensitive to camber. Examples here: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/types/perfCat.jsp?perf=EP.

PS4S are one of, if not, the best Max Performance Tires but my sources say that they like the other Max Performance tires need more camber to reduce outer edge wear. https://www.tirerack.com/tires/types/perfCat.jsp?perf=MP

A second set of wheels and tires for track or autocross use can easily be more cost effective and absolutely more "satisfying" than trying to nurse one set of more street oriented tires through a track event because you need it for street use. Note that you may have to use a little "racer's math" to make the cost effective part work. :-)

 

[mikeD4V]

I'm hoping to get 10-12 out of them and then keep them as wet/street tires. 5 days on my MPS4S so far and the fronts wear significantly on the outside. The rest of the tire looks fine and temps are consistent across the tread after sessions. Currently maxed out front camber with -1.8. Going to try adding more front bar, more neg camber (-2.5), and continue to rotate them to see if they will last the rest of the year. Track again on Friday so I'll be able to see if more front bar helps. After that I'll do bolts and/or plates to get more front camber.

@SgdriskillGT were you the white 2018 GT at FATT in July?

 

[NightmareMoon]

If you're tracking hard, then something like ~2.5-2.7 camber will help. With stock camber in the 1.5-1.8 range, the shoulders will get pretty abused.

Tire pressures matter, as does wheel width. If the tires are stretched onto the maximum wheel width, that should help too, as a lot of the shoulder wear is from the tire rolling under during hard cornering loads. In some cases, more tire pressure will help the shoulders survive a bit better, but camber and wide wheels are the real solution to shoulder wear.

The RE71Rs are relatively stiff Extreme Performance tires, but they still eat shoulders like the softer street performance tires if you don't have enough camber.

Last time I did the math, a set of dedicated track wheels for the track tires would pay for themselves after about 5 sets of tires. If you're just going out once or twice a year it may not make sense to get a 2nd dedicated set of wheels.

 

[SgdriskillGT]

I'm hoping to get 10-12 out of them and then keep them as wet/street tires. 5 days on my MPS4S so far and the fronts wear significantly on the outside. The rest of the tire looks fine and temps are consistent across the tread after sessions. Currently maxed out front camber with -1.8. Going to try adding more front bar, more neg camber (-2.5), and continue to rotate them to see if they will last the rest of the year. Track again on Friday so I'll be able to see if more front bar helps. After that I'll do bolts and/or plates to get more front camber.

@SgdriskillGT were you the white 2018 GT at FATT in July?

@mikeD4V Yep that was me in the white 2018 GT at FATT in July. Are you Miguel? You were there with LJ?

I’m doing a HPDRE at Dominion this Sunday or I would be coming to the FATT tomorrow. Have fun man!

Will you be at the Sept FATT?

 

[SgdriskillGT]

Last time I did the math, a set of dedicated track wheels for the track tires would pay for themselves after about 5 sets of tires. If you're just going out once or twice a year it may not make sense to get a 2nd dedicated set of wheels.

I do think another set of wheels and tires is a good idea, will probably hit 10+ track days each year.

Do you know what size wheels/tires we can go up to?

 

[NightmareMoon]

I do think another set of wheels and tires is a good idea, will probably hit 10+ track days each year.

Do you know what size wheels/tires we can go up to?

If you're doing that many days its a no brainer.

Square 19x10 wheels with 285 tires is easy. No other changes required.

You can also go square 19x11 (50 or 52 offset) and run ~305 tires, but you'll need extended studs and ~20mm slip on hubcentric spacers (perfectly safe) to fit those 19x11 ET 50 wheels in the front. Some 18x11 wheels fit, but its iffy. SVE 350 and R350 wheels come in that size and wont break the bank. A few vendors sell the front hubs with extended studs already installed. Im personally holding out for the Apex SM10 wheel group buy in a few months to pick up a set of 19x11 wheels.

The Hankook RS4 is a great tire that grips well and can take the abuse of track days.

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