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HawaiianStang

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Oil prices are rising sure...but you cannot compare it to the last oil price and thus gas price spike. Oil prices are rising because the GDP and the economy are booming right now. Interest rates will be next. Big difference as far as consumers when gas prices spike when the economy sucks versus now.
Oil prices rising then, and now. How is it that the two cannot be compared? As world economies improve, so does the upward pressure on oil prices.
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GreenS550

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SUVs/CUVs outselling sedans is fact. Sedan sales declining & losing market share is fact. But are sedans still selling? Yes they are. Is there still a market for sedans? Yes. There are tons of Accords, Camrys, @nd yes, Fusions on the road. Ford sedans might not be selling what Ford “projects”, but they are still selling in decent quantities. Not meeting projections does not equate to not making profit. Why abandon an entire segment that still has life left in it and profit to be made? In my opinion it is a bad move. They could adjust production to meet demand and streamline their offerings by eliminating money losers. Take the Taurus for one. It was nice when it came out. But Ford does not market it and hasn’t really updated it in a long time. Ford basically signed its death certificate by neglecting it. Ever drive one? It is a very large car that is poorly packaged. The interior feels big, bulky, & tight. Not really comfortable. Lots of wasted space. The Taurus could have been a flagship, rear drive V8 competitor to the Dodge Charger. If Ford didn’t neglect it & packaged it well inside & out & made it agressive looking Ford could have had a potential money maker.
I owned a Taurus SHO with the PP. With a tune it ran 12.99 at 105 at milan with street tires. The car handled and drove fantastic. My son bought it from me and the truth is that I often enjoy driving it more than my Mustang. Just a very fun, torquey good handling sedan.
But you are right. For some reason Ford never promoted what is truly the sleeper in the batch. He was here visiting with his wife and I was reminded how HUGE the trunk is. That is a great car no matter what the so called experts say.
I had Challenger and Camaro owners coming up to me say, "what do you have in that thing?". Best part, almost no wheel spin with AWD.
That TT 3.5 is amazing.
But again, no marketing of it.
 

BmacIL

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I owned a Taurus SHO with the PP. With a tune it ran 12.99 at 105 at milan with street tires. The car handled and drove fantastic. My son bought it from me and the truth is that I often enjoy driving it more than my Mustang. Just a very fun, torquey good handling sedan.
But you are right. For some reason Ford never promoted what is truly the sleeper in the batch. He was here visiting with his wife and I was reminded how HUGE the trunk is. That is a great car no matter what the so called experts say.
I had Challenger and Camaro owners coming up to me say, "what do you have in that thing?". Best part, almost no wheel spin with AWD.
That TT 3.5 is amazing.
But again, no marketing of it.
You need some serious suspension work if you enjoy it more than your Mustang. I do remember how poorly my car handled stock.
 

GreenS550

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You need some serious suspension work if you enjoy it more than your Mustang. I do remember how poorly my car handled stock.
Did you have the SHO with the Performance pack option? Different springs, struts, axle ratio than the stock SHO?
 

GreenS550

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UAmach1

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The biggest issues with the Taurus/SHO was it was large but barely feels like you have more room than a Fusion inside. The other was that it was HEAVY.

Personal opinion was that it was also to bland. My first car was a Taurus and my first Dream car was a first gen SHO. When the "new" SHO came out I was pumped to get one, but just couldn't pull the trigger. It felt like driving a tank.

My Q50 is a 400hp v6 TT AWD sedan, and it weights over 300lbs less. If the SHO was 250lbs less when it dropped I'd probably have snapped one up. It just felt like it needed the 3.5TT to get out of its own way in stock form. It had more HP/TQ than my 2003 Mach1 w/ AWD.... but weighted like 1000lbs more. The SHO should have been doing low 13's stock.

I was SO disappointed in the SHO. The Fusion Sport made me have dreams of a "modern" SHO but the transmission just didn't do it for me. To do it "right" I feel both should have had a manual.
 

GreenS550

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The biggest issues with the Taurus/SHO was it was large but barely feels like you have more room than a Fusion inside. The other was that it was HEAVY.

Personal opinion was that it was also to bland. My first car was a Taurus and my first Dream car was a first gen SHO. When the "new" SHO came out I was pumped to get one, but just couldn't pull the trigger. It felt like driving a tank.

My Q50 is a 400hp v6 TT AWD sedan, and it weights over 300lbs less. If the SHO was 250lbs less when it dropped I'd probably have snapped one up. It just felt like it needed the 3.5TT to get out of its own way in stock form. It had more HP/TQ than my 2003 Mach1 w/ AWD.... but weighted like 1000lbs more. The SHO should have been doing low 13's stock.

I was SO disappointed in the SHO. The Fusion Sport made me have dreams of a "modern" SHO but the transmission just didn't do it for me.
Did you drive the PP car? It consistently did mid/high 13s stock in the magazines. Check drag times. Very quiet car. Firm suspension. Those that owned the PP cars were repeat customers. Fantastic highway car. Not marketed properly.

Totally different feel than the standard SHO, which is/was sloppy to drive.
 

BmacIL

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Did you have the SHO with the Performance pack option? Different springs, struts, axle ratio than the stock SHO?
I've driven one. For what it is, it's a competent handler, but the ceiling for the Mustang is so much higher, and you can easily surpass that without even making it ride badly.
 

JoelinNOVA

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Nothing new here. Volvo bailed on IC engines already...
Not quite, Volvo only said every car will be available with Hybrid. And as we know Hybrid includes a IC.
 

control4userguy

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^Yes I know but we are talking about major changes here in the way autos do business globally.
 

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nrc

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Interesting. The data says the sales of them has been in the crapper despite being "All New". Toyota managed a small sales gain last month with huge incentives on the hood...
Where "in the crapper" is defined as "selling more than any Ford model that's not a pickup truck." The same for the Civic and Corolla. Camry sales are up almost 10% YTD right now. Compare that to the Escape which is down 12% and the Explorer which is static.

I can't speak to last month's incentives, but right now the Toyota site shows only APR offers for the Camry in my area. That's compared to $2000 on Fusions, $3000 on Escapes, and $4000 on Explorers.

If Ford's "hot" SUV segment can't outsell the passenger cars which are so obviously dead (according to some) how are they going to be competitive in the SUV space in the long term?
 

Freedom

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I think the main feature of the SUV people want is the hatchback. I think the crossover will be a success for ford even though it is a chinese made product. Fords plan of 5 new SUV is going to fail.
 

cking

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I WON'T BUY A CHINA MADE CAR!
 

EcoVert

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I WON'T BUY A CHINA MADE CAR!
I agree with that but that's what the stock market is dictating lowest possible manufacturing cost highest possible sales profit. The stock market is destroying life as we use to know it there is no hope for mankind.
 

S550Boss

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The ST and RS may not be dead in North America - remember that they have not yet been announced as products anywhere, much less as products for sale (only a verbal confirmation that the ST will use a detuned 2.3), so there cannot yet be an announcement cancelling them for North America.
The new ST will be announced in March, and that will give us an indication. Since the Focus Active is already coming, that provides the supply line and makes it considerably easier. That is the same requirement that led to the current Focus ST being able to be sold in North America.
So we need to wait.
As to where any future ST and RS will come from... that is TBD. And since the special 2.3 is unlikely to be used in any other Ford product in China, it's then likely that it will be shipped here from Europe as the current RS is.
As for the Focus Active, it looks like a nice piece of work, but it's too early to say if it is indeed a valid Crosstek competitor or not.
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