Base Eco Suspension - AutoX

[neodark]

Anyone else here AutoX their base eco (not PP) suspension? I do with mine, and while the car feels great, has good turn in, etc... I do feel a bit of body roll. I'm also using the GT PP wheels/tires which provide decent grip. However, I feel like I need more lateral grip. I can feel the car plow a bit if I come in too hot which is a driver issue too.

What's the consensus to help my times? Better tires or should I go with coils/sways first?

PS: I have my stock 18s, and I could put some sticky 255s on them but not sure if that would be worth it as a dedicated autox set over the GTPPs.

Sponsored

 

[NightmareMoon]

Tires and driver mod first. They make the biggest difference.

Shocks, springs, sways later. Stiffer suspension won't add grip, what it may do is decrease how long it takes for the suspension to react in faster transitions.

 

[neodark]

Thanks, just what I thought... Would it be worth throwing sticky 255s on my stock 18x8.5 as a dedicated track set over the GTPPs? or do I need to bite the bullet and buy wider tires/wheels?

 

[Grintch]

What class? Don't just throw stuff on willy-nilly or you will find yourself in SM or CAM outgunned against cars with a lot more mods.

 

[neodark]

They had a difficult time classing my car due to mods, last one I ended up with was STU. Primary goal for the car wasn't AutoX, or I'd been more careful with the mods I used. As is though, I've been pretty competitive, but I want more grip around corners

 

[NightmareMoon]

If you can swing it, some wider wheels for autox/track use are quite helpful to have. Its a lot of $$ though if you're starting out, so I cant' say if its worth it for you.

Unfortunately there aren't really any of the top tier good tires in 255 size, which makes using those 8.5" wheels difficult. Closest is a 265/35R19 RE71R which is really meant for a 9" wheel. Might work on an 8.5 for one season though. You could maybe go that route.

Really the ideal option is to find some good 19x10 or 18x10 wheels cheap somewhere. Some new SVE 350 style wheels are a good buy at $200 per corner for 19x10" size. Or maybe you can find some good 18x10" wheels and run the Rival S tire.

IIRC CAM would allow you to go as wide as you can, even maybe fitting 11" wheels up front (its tight). STU and STP are also 11" wide now. If you really want to be competitive, 11s can be done with the right spacers and camber, but 10s should be fine for a while.

 

[neodark]

Wow, awesome response I really appreciate it. I'm going to have to try to find a good deal on wheels and go from there. Sounds like it's at least worth waiting to do it right. Thanks again!

 

[SteveW]

Kind of a counter point to some of the other posts...If you're in a base EB on GTPP wheels and tires I don't think the wheels and tires are the biggest thing holding you back. You're already out of a stock class so I think a better bang for for the buck would be to get better shocks and springs under the car first.

Checkout the Steeda suspension packages like this one: https://www.steeda.com/Steeda-S550-Mustang-Track-Suspension-Package-15-17-555-2409

It's relatively inexpensive and would make your car a whole lot better in the corners no matter what wheels and tires you are on even if you didn't focus on autox.

 

[z3papa]

IMO -- he'd be better off de-moding his car and go back to DS, and learn how to drive the car within it's capabilities than going further. I see this as a path to some real frustration if you land in STP, CAMC or further. Get some real tires and work on the nut behind the wheel. If this something you really want to do with mods, sell the EB and get a GT.

 

[neodark]

IMO -- he'd be better off de-moding his car and go back to DS, and learn how to drive the car within it's capabilities than going further. I see this as a path to some real frustration if you land in STP, CAMC or further. Get some real tires and work on the nut behind the wheel. If this something you really want to do with mods, sell the EB and get a GT.

GT is nowhere near as fun though, nose feels significantly heavier and has no low end torque in comparison. I had a chance to drive a base GTPP and aside from those, the mechanical grip felt awesome after the initial turn-in issue. Also, the 6pots were a dream on repeated runs.

I do think the car needs more suspension mods, but I'm unsure as to what is better bang for the buck at this point. I'm not demodding to go to a stock class. I can definitely use the driver mod to be smoother, but I've really gotten better at steering with the gas pedal. My biggest issue I think is being too rough on entry. Need to keep reminding myself... Slow in, fast out.

 

[Whiskey11]

GT is nowhere near as fun though, nose feels significantly heavier and has no low end torque in comparison. I had a chance to drive a base GTPP and aside from those, the mechanical grip felt awesome after the initial turn-in issue. Also, the 6pots were a dream on repeated runs.

I do think the car needs more suspension mods, but I'm unsure as to what is better bang for the buck at this point. I'm not demodding to go to a stock class. I can definitely use the driver mod to be smoother, but I've really gotten better at steering with the gas pedal. My biggest issue I think is being too rough on entry. Need to keep reminding myself... Slow in, fast out.

That "lack" of low end torque is mostly in your head and doesn't translate very well into real world performance. The 0-30, 0-45 and 0-60 times are all in the GT's favor and that's PP to PP.

Curb weight as tested:
EB 3,656
GT 3,796

0-30 (sec.):
EB 2.2
GT 2.1

0-45 (sec.):
EB 3.9
GT 3.4

0-60 (sec.):
EB 5.9
GT 4.8

0-60 with 1-ft Rollout (sec.):
EB 5.7
GT 4.5

0-75 (sec.):
EB 8.4
GT 6.8

1/4-mile (sec @ mph):
EB 14.2 @ 96.7
GT 13.0 @ 111.4

30-0 (ft):
EB 27
GT 27

60-0 (ft):
EB 107
GT 108

Skid Pad Lateral Accel (g):
EB .96
GT .96

Slalom:
EB 70.2
GT 69.5

From Edmunds:
https://www.edmunds.com/ford/mustan...osted-pony-how-does-the-ecoboost-compare.html

I don't mean that to sound rude or condescending, just pointing out that while I agree the Ecoboost FEELS faster and more agile, that doesn't translate very well to the real world when measuring actual numbers.

As for your car, I agree with the others: Wheels and Tires followed up with good shocks/struts. That should ALWAYS be the first place to start. Once you start tweaking the suspension beyond that you really need to know where you came from to know where you are going to end up. It takes a lot of will to fight the desire to just mod the crap out of something without knowing what it'll get you.

 

[neodark]

The lack of low end torque is very real in the scenario presented, this isn't stock for stok. 360wtq @ 5k from a coyote vs an EB with more than 50lbs extra @2.5k makes a difference when coming out of turns, let's not make this GT vs EB though

Wise words, modding for the sake of doing so doesn't translate to better results on track. As for my inquiries as to the route to take with suspension or more tire... That question is as old as cars. Hence my quest for first hand experience from you guys on this platform with more experience.

I think from the above that tires will be the next biggest item to improve times as the issue is mechanical grip. The Pirellis while good when warm, take a while to do so and by that time you're already a second down.

 

[neodark]

PS: It would be a really cool test to be able to do instrumented slaloms of a GTPP vs a base suspension EB (non-PP) to see the differences in lateral grip. With stock and GTPP tires.

Do remember, the standard EB gets smaller sway bars, no braces, smaller single piston brakes/discs, etc. It's a softer car overall which induces more roll. Not to say it's bad because it does great, it just needs more lateral grip. And, I'm already working on upgrading the brakes to 4 pots btw.

 

[JamesinLittleSilver]

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/member.php?u=18539
Has some tires and wheels brand new, I was seriously thinking of getting them they are a great deal....if you decide to get them let me know.

 

[NightmareMoon]

PS: It would be a really cool test to be able to do instrumented slaloms of a GTPP vs a base suspension EB (non-PP) to see the differences in lateral grip. With stock and GTPP tires.

Do remember, the standard EB gets smaller sway bars, no braces, smaller single piston brakes/discs, etc. It's a softer car overall which induces more roll. Not to say it's bad because it does great, it just needs more lateral grip. And, I'm already working on upgrading the brakes to 4 pots btw.

Braces won't do much, the car is pretty stiff. Brakes are all but useless to upgrade for Autox purposes. The tire limits grip, as long as your tiny EB brakes can lock up the tires (i.e. trigger the abs) then they're fine. Change pad compounds possibly. Now at the track it's a different story with higher speeds and a lot more brake heat to deal with. Autox you just don't generate much heat. Last autox practice my brakes didn't even get to 250 degrees.

Swaybars would probably be a big help for your hypothetical slalom test, but the one thing that autox has shown me time and time again, is that the driver is a bigger deal than any mod. Not to brag, but I often beat local STP guys (who are on competitive tires) in an FS car. At the last pro solo (my first) I was beating the STP crowd after the first day because it was raining. Once it dried out their stiffer suspensions and 11" wide wheels/tires were doing the trick. It's a fun sport, if the cars trumped the driver skill I wouldn't be as interested.

Sponsored