Oh No- GT350 crash at Cars and Coffee

[lemers]

Power sliding on public road ways!?! Yeah thats the best place to test a cars limits.

Or the driver's limits

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[CB]

I know. There was no body around, The entire stretch of the road has vertical wall on the left. It was cut out of the side of a hill, and railroad tracks on the right. At least if I went sailing off to the right you all would have seen some cool pictures of a Mustang getting flattened by a freight train. I wasn't at my driver limit but I do know that the limit is lower than when I was twenty years old.

 

[CB]

What Hack said about the difference between GT and GT350. So if I understand this correctly just by reading this forum. The R model is the most suited to go racing? And would you say that it is a race car that can be operated on the street?

 

[firestarter2]

At 50 seconds

 

[Norm Peterson]

Norm, it's very simple in my opinion.

I would suggest that you and I grew up in a different era and during different times but somehow we made it work with all of these great cars.

<snip>

Bottom line is I could care less if any new HP car comes with TC or SC control as it is not a concern for me whether it comes to street, rural or track time.

Hopefully the newer generation of drivers and enthusiasts can comprehend where you and I are coming from!

:cheers:

I think we learned - had to learn in many cases - how to stay within the lowest limits of driver, car, and road.

I wish the newer generations could understand, really understand, where we're coming from. But it's probably at least as hard for them to comprehend how easily a car can be driven safely even today with no nannies running as it is for people like me to understand the fear of doing so.

This is all fear-driven, at least to the extent that people are unsure of being able to maintain enough control to keep any momentary slippages down to non-events. The same 'protect me against everything because I don't have the good sense to do it myself' attitude that has caused the childhood game of 'tag' to be banned from a school in (where else?) California.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

IMO it is more difficult to get a feel for modern cars because they are so isolated from the road.

For example, electric power steering has, in most cases, greatly reduced the feedback from the front wheels. It is therefore much more difficult to feel when they are starting to lose grip. Rather than sensing slip through the steering wheel, you can now only sense it through your natural sense of balance and rotation, and those don't typically kick-in until after something has started to go awry.

One of the things I don't like about steering that's made 'heavy' just to feel firmer, actually. That said, EPAS at least cannot eliminate the seat of the pants feel concerning rear tire grip. Whether EPAS makes it harder to correct for the first slip and then catch the opposite direction slip - I have no idea. I would be wondering what pull-drift and active nibble compensations would be doing the whole time, though.


Do you think most street driving incidents involving stability control intervention start out as understeer or oversteer? I honestly can't even guess here, a single 45° "spin" in my entire street driving time just isn't enough basis to support reasonable opinion either way here. Though it does go toward "why does losing control seem to be such a big problem now".

I have less of an issue with traction control and more of an issue with the loss of information coming from the wheels and the intentional tuning to make a car handle poorly in the name of "safety". I blame Ralph Nader.

There's probably some conflict between dumbing down the handling and leaving it at least good enough (linear enough, long enough?) such that ESC isn't constantly intervening. Aside from a few SUVs and such that have skidpad or slalom performances actively limited by ESC, there probably isn't much you can buy any more that can't corner at close to 0.8g in the dry or at least 0.5g in the wet. Which should be enough to keep anybody with a lick of common sense (like, slow down a bit in the wet, a lot in worse weather) out of trouble assuming tires in decent condition.

I do think people should be required to have a more involved driver's training where these scenarios can be explored in a safe environment, without traction control. That way people can learn how to drive appropriately for conditions and will have a better idea of what can be done if something unexpected happens.

-T

Agreed, absolutely. A large snow-covered lot, maybe. Which reminds me, I haven't had the opportunity to get this year's 'refresher course' in yet.


Norm

 

[CB]

Mr. Peterson, don't you think it's precious when these GT 350 drivers criticize us. They drive GT350, but I'll bet they drive on the public roads like Mr. Skolnick taking Gilbert and Lewis to college. Bunch of fucking hippocrites.

 

[dron_jones]

Mr. Peterson, don't you think it's precious when these GT 350 drivers criticize us. They drive GT350, but I'll bet they drive on the public roads like Mr. Skolnick taking Gilbert and Lewis to college. Bunch of fucking hippocrites.

Keep in mind you are more than welcome to exercise your right to not read or post in threads in this section of the forum if its too upsetting for you.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Mr. Peterson, don't you think it's precious when these GT 350 drivers criticize us.

As far as driving with vs without nannies is concerned, it doesn't matter what anybody else in the discussion might be driving or even what forum the discussion comes up on. GT350, GT, S197, Subaru, Camaro, whatever, doesn't make a bit of difference to me.

Apparently this is one of those topics where you're not supposed to have individual beliefs that differ from the "politically correct' one (no matter how well you can support your own even if you need to include a disclaimer or two).


Quite frankly, I can't understand any need to show off when leaving a C&C or other get-together, when there is a known risk of putting the situation past your ability to control. Run the revs up a little in the first couple of gears, sure. Brutally breaking traction to show off for youtube notoriety, not at all.


Norm

 

[bigfoot21075]

Brutally breaking traction to show off for youtube notoriety, not at all.


Norm

THAT seems to sum things up right there.......

 

[CB]

Keep in mind you are more than welcome to exercise your right to not read or post in threads in this section of the forum if its too upsetting for you.

You're right Mr. Jones. I'll just move on. I only have a lowly regular ole GT. And I'm so damned upset now I think I just developed an ulcer.

 

[dron_jones]

You're right Mr. Jones. I'll just move on. I only have a lowly regular ole GT. And I'm so damned upset now I think I just developed an ulcer.

Sorry to hear about the ulcer. Hope you feel better soon.

 

[Zitrosounds]

Sorry to hear about the ulcer. Hope you feel better soon.

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!

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