VTT "Shotgun" HPFP Upgrade / DI only Preiminary testing

[VargasTurboTech]

Hey guys, so as some of you know, others may not. We have a lot of experience with Direct Injection systems, most importantly HPFP's as we developed belt driven "Shotgun" HPFP upgrades for BMW platforms a few years back. Well we have taken what we learned there, and applied it to the Ecoboost platform. We did some testing today, starting off on stock injectors, and with DI only (aux fuel is completely removed from the vehicle) we made 407WHP/486WTQ before we ran out of injector. This was on boost tapering all the way down to 25 psi at redline, on 100% E85 all with just our HPFP upgrade on the car, not a port injection plate in sight... Our next step is to install DW 1700's Injectors on the car, just ran out of time today as john is 3 hours ahead of us. Once we do that, we can run full boost to redline, we expect an easy 475/475 out of this set up.

A brief rundown of our system is as follows. Stock HPFP stays in place, it runs the car on 90% of its duties meaning cruising, etc, etc. Our HPFP upgrade places an external HPFP on the front of the engine driven by the belt. Using a custom controller, we provide a map for you run, and this external pump is activated by that controller based on boost, and RPM. This pump by itself is good for 600WHP on E85, coupled with the stock pump it supplements it should support 700WHP or so. The pump system shown is currently in EARLY development stages, no where near what it will look like once production ready. All we wanted was proof of concept, and today it proved it does what it is supposed to do. Which is provide as much fuel as we need for DI only high power operation.

The next steps are getting packaging nice, and tight, and everything production ready. Our goal is for the system to almost be invisible once all your inlets, and things are back in place, as they sit right above it.

We do not have pricing yet, but we can assure you it will be comparable in price to the other offerings coming which are just a pump thats it, and only support 400WHP if you also upgrade the injectors??? :shrug:

Our kit will include HPFP, Custom pully, mounting brackets, all lines, wiring harness, and controller. Pricing is not yet set, as we have not figured costs for everything on our end, but as stated above it will be right in line with the other offerings, and support MUCH more power!

We look forward to bringing this product to production in the near future!

Thanks for the support...:cheers:

VTT

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[Marvinmadman]

Awesome! Looks like something I'd buy.

 

[mtoo22]

How many things can one have in development at one time. By the time you upgrade the HPFP, the LPFP, the injectors, wouldn't it be easier/cheaper to go port injection and also have clean valves? Not asking this to be a smartass, but for performance/dollar reasons can this become affordable if you have to upgrade the entire fuel system?

 

[VargasTurboTech]

Not sure I follow you at all here. What does the LPFP fuel pump have to do with a hpfp or pot injection? Both need to be fed by something. Using port injection the stock lpfp was already down into the 60's AKA running out of fuel. Port injection, HPFP they all need to be fed the proper fuel pressure, and fuel wise. Also not sure I follow on what else we are developing. LPFP is finished, and available, stage 2 TS is finished simply waiting to get the housings in. We are currently developing 1 product. The HPFP upgrade. Also if you feel like doing some light reading google Direct injection Vs Port injection efficiency. This will tell you a lot about why using direct injection for all your fueling is a much better choice. Making a lot of power on E85 ist't for everyone. We understand this. We appreciate your thoughts though!

 

[Juben]

Making a lot of power on E85 ist't for everyone.

Those people need to have a come to Jesus meeting then.

 

[Weather Man]

Not sure I follow you at all here. What does the LPFP fuel pump have to do with a hpfp or pot injection? Both need to be fed by something. Using port injection the stock lpfp was already down into the 60's AKA running out of fuel. Port injection, HPFP they all need to be fed the proper fuel pressure, and fuel wise. Also not sure I follow on what else we are developing. LPFP is finished, and available, stage 2 TS is finished simply waiting to get the housings in. We are currently developing 1 product. The HPFP upgrade. Also if you feel like doing some light reading google Direct injection Vs Port injection efficiency. This will tell you a lot about why using direct injection for all your fueling is a much better choice. Making a lot of power on E85 isn't for everyone. We understand this. We appreciate your thoughts though!

You answered his question about fueling in that you have several available fuel options for a desired power level.

The concern about carbon soot buildup contamination on intake valves on a pure high pressure setup is legit. E85 is great because of its wonderfully uniform evaporation and almost no soot formation during combustion compared to pump. Having soot particles introduced from dirty valves goes in the "bad" column. A guy running a big power setup would need to be extra careful to eliminate oil vapor ingestion. The good part is that can be easily handled.

The nice part about your extra pump and its pressure support capability is being able to run just 4 injectors, if I understand your setup correctly. If the fuel is there, you can bet other injector options will follow.

 

[apx632]

Seeing lots of good stuff coming from you guys of late. Simple, easy mods to help with the fueling issues with these cars. :cheers:

 

[DontoMelbo]

Was this with the stock LPFP, or with your new LPFP in tandem?

 

[dragonacc]

It's unfortunate that you still need a second controller for this upgrade. That's one of the attractive things behind upgrading the HPFP instead of going Aux fuel.

It's nice to see new ideas and upgrades regardless though so keep up the good work.

 

[ecoboosting]

Excited to see end results

 

[VargasTurboTech]

You answered his question about fueling in that you have several available fuel options for a desired power level.

The concern about carbon soot buildup contamination on intake valves on a pure high pressure setup is legit. E85 is great because of its wonderfully uniform evaporation and almost no soot formation during combustion compared to pump. Having soot particles introduced from dirty valves goes in the "bad" column. A guy running a big power setup would need to be extra careful to eliminate oil vapor ingestion. The good part is that can be easily handled.

The nice part about your extra pump and its pressure support capability is being able to run just 4 injectors, if I understand your setup correctly. If the fuel is there, you can bet other injector options will follow.

As stated we have been working on DI platforms for years, with a proper catch can set up on the car the carbon build up on the valves becomes a very very minor problem. We have not had to clean valves on any car we own in the past 3-4 years running DI only. You get carbon build up when you have all your oil vapors being sucked into the intake through the normal factory PCV system. Removing carbon from the valves by running an inefficient port injection is not a great solution to a small problem

 

[VargasTurboTech]

It's unfortunate that you still need a second controller for this upgrade. That's one of the attractive things behind upgrading the HPFP instead of going Aux fuel.

It's nice to see new ideas and upgrades regardless though so keep up the good work.

From everything we have seen, even the upgraded HPFP's do not support much power. Those plunger style pumps just do not move a lot of fuel, there is no two ways about it. We do agree, the external controller is something we were trying to avoid, but the factory ECU does not want to play nice with the new pump.

 

[paullyd210]

Personally, I see this as primarily an upgrade for big turbo guys by then I would imagine most have accepted the fact that they no longer have a warranty so the controller, for me at least, isn't much of an issue. Will keep an eye on the progress.

 

[VargasTurboTech]

Personally, I see this as primarily an upgrade for big turbo guys by then I would imagine most have accepted the fact that they no longer have a warranty so the controller, for me at least, isn't much of an issue. Will keep an eye on the progress.

This is our thinking as well.

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