Prices holding pretty well. Compare to RS3

The N63 engine is probably the best thing to happen to BMW since the actual decision to ditch the S85. And the DCT's are rock solid. They're not THAT bad. It's just when they do go bad, it gets scary. But then again anything major that goes wrong isn't a good feeling. Fingers crossed that my '13 Focus ST doesn't have carbon build up issues on the intake valves...

Zitrosounds said:

General and absolute statements are bogus. all German cars have not gone downhill. In fact I would argue the opposite in terms of technology and performance.

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Has so much technology thats why they are riddled with electrical issues.

Like I've said before, my brother is in the dealership software industry. Audi has the most OPcodes (operation codes) head and shoulders above the rest.

What does that mean exactly? Opcodes are codes that are made for every single issue the car will have. The industry average is around 30k opcodes, toyota has the lowest around 20k op codes. Audi has somewhere around 50k or more opcodes.

Also, talk to a tow truck driver and ask them which car the tow the most, they will tell you euro cars. LOL
I'd love to own an E63 amg for a daily driver, but not when its out of warranty.

I must have had amazing luck considering my past 20 German cars have been well built, reliable, and had strong resale.

I'm not getting a GT350 because of quality...I fully expect my past experience with paint caliber, fit and finish, interior materials, etc. to all be in favor of German cars. I'm getting one because Ford has built a car that is beating the Germans in their own game which they have built strong reputations and brands on. I am voting with my $ to get a true driver's car vs. these brands that have become more marketing than anything, producing watered down versions of what I once loved in pursuit of broader appeal and volume...see my 17 M3. It's fine as a daily, but not the rewarding machine my other M cars were.

kskpsu said:

I must have had amazing luck considering my past 20 German cars have been well built, reliable, and had strong resale.

I'm not getting a GT350 because of quality...I fully expect my past experience with paint caliber, fit and finish, interior materials, etc. to all be in favor of German cars. I'm getting one because Ford has built a car that is beating the Germans in their own game which they have built strong reputations and brands on. I am voting with my $ to get a true driver's car vs. these brands that have become more marketing than anything, producing watered down versions of what I once loved in pursuit of broader appeal and volume...see my 17 M3. It's fine as a daily, but not the rewarding machine my other M cars were.

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each automaker has had their dips. *cough* most American vehicles 1999-2007 *cough*

I'm surprised the Germans seem to sacrificing quality

1mic said:

Has so much technology thats why they are riddled with electrical issues.

Like I've said before, my brother is in the dealership software industry. Audi has the most OPcodes (operation codes) head and shoulders above the rest.

What does that mean exactly? Opcodes are codes that are made for every single issue the car will have. The industry average is around 30k opcodes, toyota has the lowest around 20k op codes. Audi has somewhere around 50k or more opcodes.

Also, talk to a tow truck driver and ask them which car the tow the most, they will tell you euro cars. LOL
I'd love to own an E63 amg for a daily driver, but not when its out of warranty.

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I have had 0 issues with electronics on all the Audi's I've owned. I cannot speak on behalf of any other german-made vehicles but certainly with my owner experience on Audis I can.

RyanR3KC said:

each automaker has had their dips. *cough* most American vehicles 1999-2007 *cough*

I'm surprised the Germans seem to sacrificing quality

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I am curious as to where you think the "Germans seem to sacrificing quality."? What brand? There go those general statements again. LOL And to be realistic! The American automobile is finally turning a corner as far as quality is concerned but still falls far behind the top Euro brands. Have you been in an U.S. auto makers car before 1999-2007? In terms of quality, Dude! they sucked.

Zitrosounds said:

I have had 0 issues with electronics on all the Audi's I've owned. I cannot speak on behalf of any other german-made vehicles but certainly with my owner experience on Audis I can.

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I would say about 1/2 of the Audi/VW owners I know personally have had either catastrophic issues or repeated issues that involved part replacements or overnight dealer stays.

Many more so than any Ford, GM, Dodge, BMW, MB, HOnda, or Other maker I know of.

I've have a few friends that were Audi nuts. Lets just say it was very common to hear "Cant go to the meet/cruise/C&C, Cars in the shop" from atleast one of them at all times.

UAmach1 said:

I would say about 1/2 of the Audi/VW owners I know personally have had either catastrophic issues or repeated issues that involved part replacements or overnight dealer stays.

Many more so than any Ford, GM, Dodge, BMW, MB, HOnda, or Other maker I know of.

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I cant speak for other owners but I can reference data. Here is a CR study on reliability. U.S. automakers are not 1st.
https://www.consumerreports.org/car...n/car-reliability-us-automakers-vs-the-world/

Onyx said:

I Really like the car, while I feel for me it was between a Audi TTRS and my GT350 I just felt the 350 had more character to it. I dont drag race and use my cars for HPDEs backroad's and Daily Driving. The 5 cyl. (My second favorate to the Voodoo engine) is a awesome engine and the chassis is rock solid, with crisp shifts.
My wife is up for a new car and while a RS3 is way more than she would use or want, we will have a S3 or S4 in the garage soon.

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It's about excess. You're wife "needs" the RS3. Don't you every drive your wifes car? Been trying to get my wife to buy a P-car for 2 years....because I want to drive it.

Here is another one with data showing the opposite of what many are saying in this thread.

"The 2015 VDS shows that after three years of ownership, four in 5 German makes score better than industry average when it comes to long-term quality. Owners of Porsche, Mercedes-Benz, Audi, and BMW vehicles all report fewer problems than average. This is not merely a one-year fluke. Since the year 2000, Porsche has scored better than industry average in the VDS 14 times, even going so far as to rank highest among all nameplates in the 2010 study. BMW has scored better than industry average 12 times in the VDS since 2000, and Mercedes-Benz has outperformed the industry average nine times since 2000.

The myth suggests that these German brands produce unreliable vehicles, but actual long-term dependability results do not lie. Lately, German makes have been producing reliable vehicles, and the belief that they are unreliable should remain as nothing more than a myth."

http://www.jdpower.com/cars/articles/automotion-blog/5-car-quality-myths-busted

5.Oh Crush said:

Tough to compare IMO. Here is another comparison. I bought my 2015 5.0 for 40K and traded in after 16 months. I got 31K on trade in for a GT350 and paid 58K . Its trade worth at 22 months is now 45K. Its about 25% trade depreciation on both. And, I drive the 350 a lot less. If you private sell, you can add a few thousand. So, I don't think the Gt350 is holding great value at this time.

However, I think the 350 will depreciate slower than the 5.0 in the next couple years.

:cheers:

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I think my original post might have been a little wordy and confused some people. I was just saying that I liked the RS3 and that it seemed to be taking a solid depreciation hit, like all cars - but I was also saying that the 350 has done very well compared to the RS3, depreciation-wise.

I have a B7 RS4 and there's a good chance I'll let it go if I can buy a slightly used RS3 for <$50k.

stanglife said:

It's about excess. You're wife "needs" the RS3. Don't you every drive your wifes car? Been trying to get my wife to buy a P-car for 2 years....because I want to drive it.

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Hilarious! I do the same thing but she is a huge Audi fan. When we were shopping for the new Q5 I told her we should order and SQ5, she said no : (

UAmach1 said:

My Mach1 was 10yrs old when it was wrecked. I still got 17k from insurance for it with mods and 36K on it. It was 29K new. A low milage (sub 10k) Mach1 still sells for ~20K when they are 15yrs old now.

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Like everything, it takes the right buyer. I sold my very nice <10k mile Mach when it was 10 or so years old as well. Car was highly modified with only the best of everything. Maximum motorsports everything, built aluminum block w/ cobra internals, Ford GT cams, whipple, Forgeline wheels, T56 trans. $26k. Wrecked in 2 weeks.

We currently own a 30k mile 2001 Cobra so I'm very familiar with new edge pricing.

stanglife said:

I think my original post might have been a little wordy and confused some people. I was just saying that I liked the RS3 and that it seemed to be taking a solid depreciation hit, like all cars - but I was also saying that the 350 has done very well compared to the RS3, depreciation-wise.

I have a B7 RS4 and there's a good chance I'll let it go if I can buy a slightly used RS3 for <$50k.

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Sorry. I didn't mean to continue the the derailment but cant leave a conversation if facts are not stated. IMO, the top Euro brands are overpriced as is. SO! when an American car punching well above its class, like the 350, It will hold better value. It is a car that is in the performance class of the GT3 for pete's sake. Guess that's why P cars hols such good value, benchmark.