Sponsored

Did anyone ever do a Perf Pack 2 vs 1LE test?

garagelogic

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2013
Threads
45
Messages
1,552
Reaction score
1,053
Location
TN
Vehicle(s)
1990 LX 5.0 Coupe-Coyote Swapped
Vehicle Showcase
1
What is the current going ADM on a GT350R? Last time I looked it was $15,000 or more. Not what they we asking, what they were getting.
I paid $66k plus tax for my 2016 R. I bought it brand new. I also sold it eighteen months and 13K miles later for $66K.
Sponsored

 

Grintch

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2014
Threads
15
Messages
1,892
Reaction score
792
Location
Hunstville
Vehicle(s)
2015 GT PP
I paid $66k plus tax for my 2016 R. I bought it brand new. I also sold it eighteen months and 13K miles later for $66K.

So if it was so great, why sale it after a year & 13,000 miles?

If GT350 R no longer require ADM that's great. A R is then silimar in price and performance to a ZL1. Now we just need a competitive PP2.
 

4V Mayhem

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 20, 2016
Threads
9
Messages
1,368
Reaction score
528
Location
US
Vehicle(s)
2015 Mustang GT Premium M6
So if it was so great, why sale it after a year & 13,000 miles?

If GT350 R no longer require ADM that's great. A R is then silimar in price and performance to a ZL1. Now we just need a competitive PP2.
His example is not the norm. Some people somehow got lucky and were able to get one at MSRP. But most of them were at $5K to $10K over. And there were others that were about $10K to $20K over. And I wouldn't quite say they are similar in performance. Their handling characteristics seem to be about equal but the ZL1 (even with manual trans) is much faster in a straight line. Neither car was built for straight line work tho.
 

garagelogic

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2013
Threads
45
Messages
1,552
Reaction score
1,053
Location
TN
Vehicle(s)
1990 LX 5.0 Coupe-Coyote Swapped
Vehicle Showcase
1
You lost me with “why you sale it?”. I did not “sale” it. The question should be, “why did you sell it?”.

Primarily, I sold it because my job was taking me to a location where it would no longer be practical to own. It’s that simple.
 

garagelogic

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2013
Threads
45
Messages
1,552
Reaction score
1,053
Location
TN
Vehicle(s)
1990 LX 5.0 Coupe-Coyote Swapped
Vehicle Showcase
1
His example is not the norm. Some people somehow got lucky and were able to get one at MSRP. But most of them were at $5K to $10K over. And there were others that were about $10K to $20K over. And I wouldn't quite say they are similar in performance. Their handling characteristics seem to be about equal but the ZL1 (even with manual trans) is much faster in a straight line. Neither car was built for straight line work tho.
Certainly not the norm, but ADM does not figure into the level of performance engineered into the car at the MSRP price point. And, of course, you would expect a car making 650hp/650tq to have a better straight line performance.
 

Sponsored

garagelogic

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2013
Threads
45
Messages
1,552
Reaction score
1,053
Location
TN
Vehicle(s)
1990 LX 5.0 Coupe-Coyote Swapped
Vehicle Showcase
1
At the end of the day, GM is offering the better options if you’re into as-delivered factory track performance. How anybody can argue this, I don’t understand. It is also true that this performance advantage is only resulting in bragging rights, as it does not seem to be translating into increased sales for the better performing car.

The fact remains, no matter how well it performs as compared to what other automakers are delivering, the Mustang always has been, and likely always will be, the car in its segment that the majority of people want to drive. I think it is this fact that makes so many Camaro enthusiasts so frustrated that they use any excuse to deride the Mustang in an effort to elevate their own choice in vehicle.

I doubt anybody who actually purchased a PP2-equipped car is lamenting that decision. They knew what was being offered in the package. Maybe the 1% of PP2 buyers that will ever see a track might be disappointed, but that is about it.
 
Last edited:

bluebeastsrt

Oh boy
Joined
May 10, 2015
Threads
79
Messages
7,552
Reaction score
7,026
Location
New Jersey
First Name
BigD
Vehicle(s)
Ruby red 2019 GT Premium.
At the end of the day, GM is offering the better option if you’re into as-delivered factory track performance. How anybody can argue this, I don’t understand. It is also true that this performance advantage is only resulting in bragging rights, as it does not seem to be translating into increased sales for the better performing car.

The fact remains, no matter how well it performs as compared to what other automakers are delivering, the Mustang always has been, and likely always will be, the car in its segment that the majority of people want to drive. I think it is this fact that makes so many Camaro enthusiasts so frustrated that they use any excuse to deride the Mustang in an effort to elevate their own choice in vehicle.

I doubt anybody who actually purchased a PP2-equipped car is lamenting that decision. They knew what was being offered in the package. Maybe the 1% of PP2 buyers that will ever see a track might be disappointed, but that is about it.
At the end of the day, GM is offering the better option if you’re into as-delivered factory track performance. How anybody can argue this, I don’t understand. It is also true that this performance advantage is only resulting in bragging rights, as it does not seem to be translating into increased sales for the better performing car.

The fact remains, no matter how well it performs as compared to what other automakers are delivering, the Mustang always has been, and likely always will be, the car in its segment that the majority of people want to drive. I think it is this fact that makes so many Camaro enthusiasts so frustrated that they use any excuse to deride the Mustang in an effort to elevate their own choice in vehicle.

I doubt anybody who actually purchased a PP2-equipped car is lamenting that decision. They knew what was being offered in the package. Maybe the 1% of PP2 buyers that will ever see a track might be disappointed, but that is about it.
Gotta agree. Lets face it. GM is besting Ford in every performance matrix. By simply having a ZL1. There isn't a single mustang that can match its straight line performance. And nothing is matching 1Le trim for track duty. You'd think a car like that would be a sales giant. Instead of the sad showing it's currently making.
 

thehunterooo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2014
Threads
23
Messages
3,255
Reaction score
1,062
Location
FL
Vehicle(s)
2006 Corvette
Gotta agree. Lets face it. GM is besting Ford in every performance matrix. By simply having a ZL1. There isn't a single mustang that can match its straight line performance. And nothing is matching 1Le trim for track duty. You'd think a car like that would be a sales giant. Instead of the sad showing it's currently making.
Sales don't matter only profits which we know which car has the higher profits without actually knowing any of the numbers :)
 

martinjlm

Retired from GM
Joined
Feb 4, 2018
Threads
15
Messages
1,568
Reaction score
2,973
Location
Detroit
Vehicle(s)
2017 Camaro Fifty SS Convertible
Sales don't matter only profits which we know which car has the higher profits without actually knowing any of the numbers :)
True, but we do know the ATP and it’s pretty impressive. If you take [Mustang Sales] X [Mustang ATP] = Total Revenue and compare that to [Camaro Sales] X [Camaro ATP] = Total Revenue, the numbers are almost equal. So both products are putting about the same amount of $$$ in the corporate cash register. Cost of Goods Sold is the unknown quantity for both.
 

garagelogic

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2013
Threads
45
Messages
1,552
Reaction score
1,053
Location
TN
Vehicle(s)
1990 LX 5.0 Coupe-Coyote Swapped
Vehicle Showcase
1
Speaking of profits, if the margin on the Camaro is as big as many believe it is, imagine how good GM would be feeling if more people were taking delivery of their product.

Back on topic, I can’t find anywhere where Ford ever touted the PP2 as anything other than an option package for the Mustang that is a step up from the PP1. They have never touted it as a package that make the Mustang a “track” car or a competitor to the 1LE packages offered on the Camaro.
 

Sponsored

Big Boss

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2015
Threads
0
Messages
705
Reaction score
220
Location
Outer Heaven
Vehicle(s)
Mazda6
Speaking of profits, if the margin on the Camaro is as big as many believe it is, imagine how good GM would be feeling if more people were taking delivery of their product.

Back on topic, I can’t find anywhere where Ford ever touted the PP2 as anything other than an option package for the Mustang that is a step up from the PP1. They have never touted it as a package that make the Mustang a “track” car or a competitor to the 1LE packages offered on the Camaro.
I don't think they ever flat out said it was a track package, but when you look at some of the components on it, specifically the tires it is a bit odd that they went with that extreme of a choice if it is not a track package.
 

thehunterooo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2014
Threads
23
Messages
3,255
Reaction score
1,062
Location
FL
Vehicle(s)
2006 Corvette
I like that "pretender pack 2" phrase lol

True, but we do know the ATP and it’s pretty impressive. If you take [Mustang Sales] X [Mustang ATP] = Total Revenue and compare that to [Camaro Sales] X [Camaro ATP] = Total Revenue, the numbers are almost equal. So both products are putting about the same amount of $$$ in the corporate cash register. Cost of Goods Sold is the unknown quantity for both.
That is the whole thing though without knowing costs there is no way to know anything about actual profits. Which is why I never understood why profits come up all the time. People are just guessing at what things could cost based on some retail prices of components but we know manufacturers are not paying retail on things like the 350R rims (which was claimed that Ford is paying retail for each rim LOL).
 

garagelogic

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2013
Threads
45
Messages
1,552
Reaction score
1,053
Location
TN
Vehicle(s)
1990 LX 5.0 Coupe-Coyote Swapped
Vehicle Showcase
1
Cup2’s tires are not some crazy offering. They are OEM on several cars and are simply a good way to offer improved handling performance on any car. Yes, they might be considered a track-intent tire, but maybe they were an easy answer for Ford to get the handling metrics they wanted from a PP2i equipped car while keeping the price point desired for the package.
 
Last edited:

BmacIL

Enginerd
Joined
Sep 21, 2014
Threads
69
Messages
15,010
Reaction score
8,920
Location
Naperville, IL
Vehicle(s)
2015 Guard GT Base, M/T
Vehicle Showcase
1
Cup2’s tires are not some crazy offering. They are OEM on several cars and are simply a good way to offer improved handling performance on any car. Yes, they might be considered a track-intent tire, but maybe they were an easy answer for Ford to get the handling metrics they wanted from a PP2i equipped car while keeping the price point desired for the package.
I'd buy that explanation if they put PP1 size cup 2s on. Instead they put 350R spec, 305 wide fronts all around. Good handling can be achieved with far less tire. Fast times? Not so much on these heavy cars.

Every other car I can think of that includes PS Cup/Cup 2s or a very similar tire is very clear about its track intentions. Anything else has something similar to a PSS/PS4S.
 

Competition Orange

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2015
Threads
40
Messages
1,402
Reaction score
436
Location
Columbus, Ohio
Vehicle(s)
2017 GT350
Cup2’s tires are not some crazy offering. They are OEM on several cars and are simply a good way to offer improved handling performance on any car. Yes, they might be considered a track-intent tire, but maybe they were an easy answer for Ford to get the handling metrics they wanted from a PP2i equipped car while keeping the price point desired for the package.
The Cup 2 tire is about as "extreme" a tire as you can buy on a production car. Trofeo R might be a half step further, but aside from super cars, the Z28 was the only car to use those.
Sponsored

 
 




Top