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PP2 Different steering rack/ratio?

valentinoamoro

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My biggest beef with the S550 stock Stang is the slightly slow steering ratio of 16:1. It took a lot of mods to make the front end more responsive (and they have worked). I just read the PP2 has a different ratio?

http://www.evo.co.uk/ford/mustang/2...ce-pack-level-2-more-focus-and-sophistication

"Among the changes to deliver these improved responses are a quicker-ratio steering rack and standard-fit MagneRide dampers"

Is this true and if so, what is the ratio? I wonder if we can retrofit this to the pre-midcycle cars.

The GT350 and R I believe have 16.5:1 (so even slower)

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford/mustang/2016/2016-ford-shelby-gt350r-mustang-first-drive-review/

That along with the wider front tires will do a lot for steering response.

I saw a lot of people saying the PP2 is not worth 6500. I'll say this, the biggest complaints about my 15 PP that I had were:
1) Muted exhaust - fixed in 18 refresh and by me in aftermarket
2) Slower steering than I'd like - partially mitigated by me in aftermarket with sways, wider wheels, toe out. Seems fixed in 18 PP2
3) High speed front end lift - currently being addressed by me with splitter. Seems like partially addressed in 18 refresh with redesigned hood vents, fixed in PP2 with aggressive spoiler.
4) Body roll - fixed by me with bushings, springs, dampers etc. Fixed in PP2 with better shocks, springs. I suspect they have left all that rubber bushings though which needs to go.
5) Insanely heavy wheels and shitty tires - fixed by me in aftermarket. Fixed in PP2.

All said and done, I think Ford addressed most of my issues and I bet its cheaper to go the PP2 route than the one I took. I bet the PP2 reviews will be very favorable.
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BmacIL

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This could be on my list if true. I've always wanted a quicker ratio in this car. It would be great to be able to negotiate tight corners with 90-120 of lock vs. 150-180...
 

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That would be awesome. My Evo 9 had 13.0:1 and that thing was incredible to drive.
 
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valentinoamoro

valentinoamoro

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Ford Press Release Confirms it

If it's true, then I'd definitely put this on my to do list.
"Custom tuned MagneRide® dampers and quicker steering calibration provide better response"

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92258

Pretty much every car reviewer looking at handling judges a car by the steering response, tendency to understeer/rotate and body roll - so if this rack is significantly quicker and can be retro-fit to older cars, it's probably going to be on the most significant changes to the nimbleness on our S550s .

I'm going to remain hopeful as this is a replacement on a GT, so very likely same hardpoints and a bolt-on. With a bit of luck this might be an easy install. Might have some impact on stability control, but I doubt anything major.
 

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valentinoamoro

valentinoamoro

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That would be awesome. My Evo 9 had 13.0:1 and that thing was incredible to drive.
Yup. The Evos and now the Guilias have quick steering - its on the reasons why both those cars feel like so agile and nimble.
 
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valentinoamoro

valentinoamoro

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[MENTION=25806]SteedaTech[/MENTION], is there a solution you guys can evaluate that improves the slow factory steering ratio? Ex- bigger turns from smaller movements to wheel by changing the rack, ties rods, columns etc..

I think the handling guys will be all over it..Ford seems to be moving in that direction with the PP2. Huge opportunity to improve handling...
 

Roadway 5.0

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You and I think much alike.

I surf the vendors' websites often in hopes that an aftermarket rack will appear for our 6g Mustangs. I've modified my car to get the right feeling/response too, but adding a proper rack would be the whiskey-filled cherry on top.

And yes, the PP2 is an excellent value.
 

Stuntman

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Since when does the mustang have slow steering? Sure it's not as twitchy and super responsive as an S2000 or EVO, but it's far from "slow".

You really can't compare the ratios of one car to another without understanding the suspension geometry of the car and where the tie rod mounts to the knuckle:

-If you have a 14:1 ratio know mounted far from the wheel centerline on a toe arm that is way out by the rim lip, the quick ratio won't mean anything because the travel has little impact on turning the wheel.

-Now take a 16:1 ratio and mount it close to the the wheel centerline. Any steering input will have a massive effect on rotating the tire.
 

BmacIL

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The 16:1 ratio is the angle change of the steering wheel to the steer wheels. It already takes into account the steering arm length. It's not just the rack ratio...

16:1 is a slow ratio for a performance car, but fairly typical for the average passenger car/sedan.
 

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valentinoamoro

valentinoamoro

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You and I think much alike.

I surf the vendors' websites often in hopes that an aftermarket rack will appear for our 6g Mustangs. I've modified my car to get the right feeling/response too, but adding a proper rack would be the whiskey-filled cherry on top.

And yes, the PP2 is an excellent value.
Most of the vendors are focused on more 'traditional' plays like springs, bracing, bearings, intakes etc (the usual suspects!) - I think something like this will require the forum to actively lobby and influence guys like Steeda.

I dont have a choice anyway. I just dont see a viable replacement for my Stang. I've dialed it in really nice, love it, suspect the V8s are done after this generation and it doesn't have any of the compromises the only three prospects I could see myself getting have - the 1LE doesnt work as visibility sucks and trunk space wont work with my baby, GT350R no back seat (although I do drool at that beast!) and Giulia Quadrafolio is simply likely to be too unreliable and depreciate like a rock.

As you said, the steering ratio mod would be the last WHISKEY filled cherry on top :D- lets start a thread and get people to influence Steeda, BMR etc. [MENTION=27886]Roadway 5.0[/MENTION], I just started a poll. Please weigh in, the more voices the more serious the vendors will take this request.
 
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S550Boss

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There are a lot more questions than this - for example, without the wider GT350 front fenders, what's the turning circle? Has Ford had to cut steering travel to keep the bigger tires off the inside of the fenders? This has happened before in past Mustangs that weren't designed for the larger tires they eventually ended up with... resulting in a larger turning circle.
We also need to know the full specifications for PP2, with a parts list showing changes. Somebody claimed - without any basis whatsoever - this the car uses "GT350 suspension parts". There is zero basis for this claim other than similar (but not tuned the same) magnet dampers. The GT350's front spindles and bearings were changed to support the larger tires... they would have been important here to to keep the camber curve optimal, but there is zero indication. And the GT350 rear suspension with the up-rated control arms and real brakes (rather than the miserable 1-piston iron sliders) is missing.
So I see the PP2 as a half-way job, where it could have had the entire GT350 suspension parts list. It's absolutely not a track car, it's not a competitor even one little bit to the 1LE SS, maybe it's an autocross car (with the question of the turning circle open), and there is little point otherwise than appearances.
 

BmacIL

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There are a lot more questions than this - for example, without the wider GT350 front fenders, what's the turning circle? Has Ford had to cut steering travel to keep the bigger tires off the inside of the fenders? This has happened before in past Mustangs that weren't designed for the larger tires they eventually ended up with... resulting in a larger turning circle.
We also need to know the full specifications for PP2, with a parts list showing changes. Somebody claimed - without any basis whatsoever - this the car uses "GT350 suspension parts". There is zero basis for this claim other than similar (but not tuned the same) magnet dampers. The GT350's front spindles and bearings were changed to support the larger tires... they would have been important here to to keep the camber curve optimal, but there is zero indication. And the GT350 rear suspension with the up-rated control arms and real brakes (rather than the miserable 1-piston iron sliders) is missing.
So I see the PP2 as a half-way job, where it could have had the entire GT350 suspension parts list. It's absolutely not a track car, it's not a competitor even one little bit to the 1LE SS, maybe it's an autocross car (with the question of the turning circle open), and there is little point otherwise than appearances.
How did you come to this conclusion, when the specifications absolutely indicate otherwise?
 

wildcatgoal

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Firm front springs and Steeda's front lower control arm with the extended ball joint and Steeda's front upper control arm bearing made my steering feel much quicker and more accurate.

Regarding the PP2, I'd have the 1LE over it all day. I'm confident I can best a PP2 in a 1LE after some "getting used to both" time at the same track, same day (stock for stock).
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