Did anyone ever do a Perf Pack 2 vs 1LE test?

Grintch said:

In summary:
A $65,000 Camaro is faster than a $80,000 Mustang.
A $40,000 Camaro is almost as fast as a $80,000 Mustang (VIR Grand West is 4+ miles around, not 2.5).
A $35,000 Mustang is way slower (~10 seconds at Lightning Lap) than a $40,000 Camaro.

Now do you see why Ford is not providing PP2's for track camparos?

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What gets me is that people have been defending pp gt as in regard the cars whole purpose being a street performer. Since day 1 back in 2015, Motortrends Gen 5 1le camaro vs 15 gtpp comparison started that debate. If pp is a street performer than why there is a regular gt? Mustang as it’s foundation always been a street performance car and grand tourer.

Now we have PP2 and sadly again another package for the streets but nothing more. Back in S197 era, Ford at least called the pp package a track package for the mustang gt. Did it have anything over the current pp packaged gt has? Hell No! Infact the current gtpp can run circles around s197 track pack. However something happened! They introduced the gt350 to milk the track enthusiasts. First generation didn’t have necessary coolers and Ford defended the car pointing the regular version was also a street performer and people have to option to track package or go with the R version. They fixed that by making tp base on the new gt350’s.

So long story short, Ford has no intention on bringing a track focused regular gt to the market unless the gt350 production is done for. It doesn’t matter what the competition offers. Their sales are good and they are counting Benjamins thanks to the loyal Ford customers. Now if the sales were bad then it would be a different story!

$40k 1LE?

thehunterooo said:

$40k 1LE?

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I see several dealers offering new 2018 SS1 1LE's for $38,xxxx on autotrader. One being Rick Hendrick Chevrolet in Buford GA (Atlanta metro area). They show.similar prices on their website. They also are offereing ZL1's well below MSRP and have multiple ones in stock. Neither of which ever seems to happen with GT350's.

thehunterooo said:

$40k 1LE?

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There's also no $80K Mustangs. Sure, someone would love for you to pay that, but it's not the real price.

What is the current going ADM on a GT350R? Last time I looked it was $15,000 or more. Not what they we asking, what they were getting.

Grintch said:

In summary:
A $65,000 Camaro is faster than a $80,000 Mustang.
A $40,000 Camaro is almost as fast as a $80,000 Mustang (VIR Grand West is 4+ miles around, not 2.5).
A $35,000 Mustang is way slower (~10 seconds at Lightning Lap) than a $40,000 Camaro.

Now do you see why Ford is not providing PP2's for track camparos?

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Ford was never going to do that. They said that from day one. To me it seems like Ford is simply giving people a very good handling Mustang that you could drive in a spirited manner on the streets. If you're going to work and there are a few roads or maybe on/off ramps that you want to take aggressively then it's for you. But if you want to step it up on the track then the Shelby is for you. It wouldn't make sense for the PP2 to be a track car because the Shelby is already in that spot. So if you want close to Shelby-like performance for a little cheaper then get the PP2.

Grintch said:

I see several dealers offering new 2018 SS1 1LE's for $38,xxxx on autotrader. One being Rick Hendrick Chevrolet in Buford GA (Atlanta metro area). They show.similar prices on their website. They also are offereing ZL1's well below MSRP and have multiple ones in stock. Neither of which ever seems to happen with GT350's.

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Grintch said:

What is the current going ADM on a GT350R? Last time I looked it was $15,000 or more. Not what they we asking, what they were getting.

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Well it isn't really fair to include ADMs in the price. Even if you can't get one without ADM, it still isn't reflective of what Ford built or put into the car. An extra $15,000 would have put the Shelby right on par if not better.

It isn't fair to have to PAY ADMs. Not that I ever would.

All Ford has to do to make ADM's go away or at least down, is make more GT350s. Which also makes them more money. Let people order GT350's directly and bypass the while dealer alotment system.

Damn that $58,000 ZL1 at Hendrick is tempting, and a lot of that is because it is $8000 UNDER MSRP. If it was $8000 (or $15,000) over, I wouldn't give it a seconds consideration.

Grintch said:

It isn't fair to have to PAY ADMs. Not that I ever would.

All Ford has to do to make ADM's go away or at least down, is make more GT350s. Which also makes them more money. Let people order GT350's directly and bypass the while dealer alotment system.

Damn that $58,000 ZL1 at Hendrick is tempting, and a lot of that is because it is $8000 UNDER MSRP. If it was $8000 (or $15,000) over, I wouldn't give it a seconds consideration.

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It's not really fair to use anything other than MSRP to compare the cars, unless you also are willing to admit there are reasons why people pay those prices.

The reason some people paid more than MSRP for some Rs and some GT350s is because they think the car is worth more than MSRP. The reason you can get a ZL1 for less than MSRP is because people don't think the car is worth MSRP.

Yes, Ford isn't making 10s of thousands of extra GT350s and flooding the market with them, but there are plenty enough of the cars out there. So, especially 3+ years after they first came out - there's no shortage of GT350s on the market. Yet the dealers don't have to slash prices to get their sales.

Grintch said:

It isn't fair to have to PAY ADMs. Not that I ever would.

All Ford has to do to make ADM's go away or at least down, is make more GT350s. Which also makes them more money. Let people order GT350's directly and bypass the while dealer alotment system.

Damn that $58,000 ZL1 at Hendrick is tempting, and a lot of that is because it is $8000 UNDER MSRP. If it was $8000 (or $15,000) over, I wouldn't give it a seconds consideration.

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Well what is fair comes down to the individual buyer. And I don't think Ford has any power over what a dealership charges and a person pays. Look at what happened with the Hellcat. Dodge tried to get a handle on ADMs and dealerships still charged over MSRP for the Demon. Ford could make more of these cars in the future. But I'm guessing that would come down to board room stuff so who knows. And $58K for a ZL1 is an amazing price. Some people were paying a few thousand less than that for a SS. I doubt you could find a better deal anywhere so if it is something you want then you better grab it before it is too late.

4V Mayhem said:

Well what is fair comes down to the individual buyer. And I don't think Ford has any power over what a dealership charges and a person pays. Look at what happened with the Hellcat. Dodge tried to get a handle on ADMs and dealerships still charged over MSRP for the Demon. Ford could make more of these cars in the future. But I'm guessing that would come down to board room stuff so who knows. And $58K for a ZL1 is an amazing price. Some people were paying a few thousand less than that for a SS. I doubt you could find a better deal anywhere so if it is something you want then you better grab it before it is too late.

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I bet a brand new GT350R with $8k off MSRP pricing would sell same day. Heck, a GT350 with that pricing would as well. No time to consider or be tempted. Act now or it would be gone. Zl1 just isn't as desirable.

Forget the ZL1, for 55 grand you can get a slightly used C7 ZO6 these days! I can’t imagine people paying 50 g’s for regular mustangs since they are ordering it loaded per their liking.

Grintch said:

What is the current going ADM on a GT350R? Last time I looked it was $15,000 or more. Not what they we asking, what they were getting.

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There have been several threads in the 350 section lately of MSRP leads on R’s. $5K ADM leads sit with no takers. I can’t see anyone paying ADM at this stage of the game.

garagelogic said:

I wonder what percentage of PP2 optioned cars will be fleet sales?

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NONE...!


Because you can't drive them in the rain. No rental company will deal with such a liability.

Grintch said:

What is the current going ADM on a GT350R? Last time I looked it was $15,000 or more. Not what they we asking, what they were getting.

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When was the last time you looked...?

GT350 is in it's 4th year of production all the diehards who wanted/needed one already payed ADM.

thehunterooo said:

$40k 1LE?

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$80K Mustang?