Stereo Information (Wiring, Upgrades, etc...)

rocknstang said:

There are 2 channels that feed the 3.5" mid in the upper door and the tweeter in the A pillars. That line is split (I believe) before the wire goes into the door.

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Correct

z06psi said:

Looks like I need to run new wires to the pillars then for the tweets since they will be on their own dedicated amp and DSP channel.

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Correct

DAZZA said:

The passive crossover is a capacitor that is in the a pillar glued to the tweeter.

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Correct

z06psi said:

I am using active crossovers for all my stuff. I have a Morel 3 component set.

I will end up running entire new wires for the pillars. It's not hard and the cost is low. The entire interior will be out for all of this except the dash.

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When you say you are using active crossovers, you are referring to the JL DSP units and not the crossovers that came with your Morels, correct?

:shrug:

I have a what i feel is a very plausible possibility for wiring an aftermarket amp/sub to the factory shaker amp that didn't come with a sub woofer.

Iv'e been scouring all kinds of threads on this topic and what i've come up with is this.

I believe there is a fairly easy way to add the additional pin-outs to the shaker amp wiring harness in the front kick panel to extract the signal for my aftermarket amp. it appears that while ford has different wiring harnesses for the different shaker options, the front amp is the same and therefore so is the Molex connector that plugs in.



from the image shown pulled from a comment of another member "Grumblin".
On harness 14A005, pins 1,2,3,9 are clearly the amp signal +-, power, and remote wire. Problem is non shaker systems don't have any wires connected to those pins. The pins however are available on Amazon for 6 bucks for 50.
this seams like the preferred method for getting an amp signal without degrading the line out voltage to the speakers

https://www.amazon.com/TE-CONNECTIVITY-AMP-1393366-1-20-18AWG/dp/B00MMYIODW/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1513414572&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=tyco+1393366-1

Things I'm not sure of:
1) what is the state of signal that's being sent to the secondary shaker sub amp. is it line level or low level? idk.
2) do those pin need to be activated by means of "Forscan"?
3)Is the signal clean and unaltered by the HU or amp.

Update and further questions:

Previously I had issues with a low level hiss that was loud enough to be heard even when playing at low volumes. I took it as the sensitivity of my power amplifier and installed a DSP which got rid of it.

I have since removed the DSP and changed the amplfiier as well as purchased a new set of HERTZ HSK 165 HI ENERGY 2-WAY 6.5" COMPONENT SPEAKER SYSTEM 250 WATT.


No hiss and a clean signal but I noticed that even with the gain on this amplifier turned all the way up I can pump the volume to MAX. It goes more than loud enough but at half way is fairly mediocre in volume.

The system sounds fantastic but I wanted to know if the output on this head unit is fairly low? Where does your volume sit for reasonable loud but not overbearing as mine would be around level 20 and at 30 (max) its pumping very loud with no distortion.

I no longer have any DSP installed. Still exploring the best way to go with the components I have picked.

Benwilj said:

:shrug:


Things I'm not sure of:
1) what is the state of signal that's being sent to the secondary shaker sub amp. is it line level or low level? idk.
2) do those pin need to be activated by means of "Forscan"?
3)Is the signal clean and unaltered by the HU or amp.

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Turns out that DSP between a 9 and 12 speaker systems have two different part nos, and even though they are identical the sub out on the 9 speaker system is disabled, and it seems even the head end unless supports HD Radio is needed to get the signal to the DSP. Also no twiddling with Forscan has enabled any it. Somebody proved it by buying a system out of wreck and swapping parts.

I looked through ebay and Ford change parts supplier for system over the three years. I could never identify a DSP out of a 12 speaker car.

DAZZA said:

It goes more than loud enough but at half way is fairly mediocre in volume.

The system sounds fantastic but I wanted to know if the output on this head unit is fairly low? Where does your volume sit for reasonable loud but not overbearing as mine would be around level 20 and at 30 (max) its pumping very loud with no distortion.

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The OP in this thread gives the voltage levels. It appears to not be linear and my ears tell me the same. Volume is subjective to a degree so for reference I have Focal Flax 2 way components up front running off of an Alpine 75wx2 amp. No rear channel and an Arc Audio XDI 1100.1 pushing 2 10s at 1 ohm. When it's just me in the car I usually have the volume between about 16 and 22 or so depending on song and mood. When I want to crank it I push it up over 25. Volume at midway I'm still able to converse with a passenger without too much trouble.

When my wife is in the car the volume never goes above about midway (14-15) but her ears are more delicate than mine. Haha.

Hope this helps.

rocknstang said:

The OP in this thread gives the voltage levels. It appears to not be linear and my ears tell me the same. Volume is subjective to a degree so for reference I have Focal Flax 2 way components up front running off of an Alpine 75wx2 amp. No rear channel and an Arc Audio XDI 1100.1 pushing 2 10s at 1 ohm. When it's just me in the car I usually have the volume between about 16 and 22 or so depending on song and mood. When I want to crank it I push it up over 25. Volume at midway I'm still able to converse with a passenger without too much trouble.

When my wife is in the car the volume never goes above about midway (14-15) but her ears are more delicate than mine. Haha.

Hope this helps.

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Yes that does help, thanks. I think it similar to mine then. With my DSP installed it must have been amplifying the signal as around midway it was cranking.

Something interesting that I noticed before removing the factory DSP/Amplifier the sound menu had a DSP setting for driver/all seats. When I removed the factory DSP/Amplifier the setting was still displayed but you could not change it. Now the entire setting has disappeared on the menu all together??

DAZZA said:

Something interesting that I noticed before removing the factory DSP/Amplifier the sound menu had a DSP setting for driver/all seats. When I removed the factory DSP/Amplifier the setting was still displayed but you could not change it. Now the entire setting has disappeared on the menu all together??

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Since I had a shop do my install, the setting was there before and not there after. And that makes sense since there is no factory DSP to manipulate the sound.

Edit: Never mind. I figured it all out.

silverblt said:

"You can't remove the factory amp, the signal from the factory head unit to the amp is digital and most of your sound system will not function without that in place, you need a high end line output converter with channel summing capability such as the audio control lc7i or Rockford 360, jl clean sweep, Audubon bit 10

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Someone sent me a PM asking about this post, no clue if someone has corrected this info.. but this shit is absolutely false and any installer that perpetuates this to sell more gear or to take advantage of you guys needs to get out of the business. The output of the ACM is analog line level signal or speaker level. It can be changed between the two settings using FORScan. If this installer was telling the truth the 401A ACM in my base car would not work. The base car had no external amplifier.

cking said:

and it seems even the head end unless supports HD Radio is needed to get the signal to the DSP. Also no twiddling with Forscan has enabled any it. Somebody proved it by buying a system out of wreck and swapping parts.

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That’s false, ALL ACMs send the same info to the Amp, 400A or 401A. Hell, even the base ACM with the output set to line level will supply the signal. The sub signal is a function of the DSP. DSPs in 400A cars do not physically have the internal traces for sub out.

I understand what you are saying, the sub signal is generated by DSP which feeds the sub Amp. However on another thread somebody took the DSP and sub amp/speaker out of a 401a car and couldn't get the sub signal until he install ACM that supports HD radio. So has anybody been able to swap a DSP out 401A into a 400A car and find the enabled sub line? To add your own amp and sub. There are lots of used DSP's on Ebay for cheap but I can't tell a 400 from 401.

cking said:

I understand what you are saying, the sub signal is generated by DSP which feeds the sub Amp. However on another thread somebody took the DSP and sub amp/speaker out of a 401a car and couldn't get the sub signal until he install ACM that supports HD radio. So has anybody been able to swap a DSP out 401A into a 400A car and find the enabled sub line? To add your own amp and sub. There are lots of used DSP's on Ebay for cheap but I can't tell a 400 from 401.

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It’s an as built programming issue. Sorry my post should have said “All ACMs send the same analog information to the DSP” i make harnesses so that people can delete the factory DSP-Amp and add aftermarket amplifiers. The pinout for the two is exactly the same until after the DSP. I don’t remember which line of code it is off hand but you have to tell the ACM that you are using the 401A DSP. I’ll try to find it for you.

[MENTION=28002]cking[/MENTION] Digging deeper into this I looked at ABD for 6 cars in Spart's database, 3 were 401A and 3 were 400A

These are the differences.

ACM 727-01-01 xXxx xxxx xx 0= 401A HD Radio ON 8= 400A HD Radio OFF

ACM 727-01-02 xXxx 3= 401A EQ 2= 400A EQ 0= EQ OFF

DSP 783-01-01 Xxxx-xx 1=401A 6V turn on enabled 0=400A 6V Turn on disabled (thanks to [MENTION=30920]djcwardog[/MENTION] for the confirmation)

That last line is what interests me. The DSP for a 401A car needs to be told to send 6V via pin 9 to the sub-woofer amplifier in the trunk. It is possible that this also enables the DSP and ACM to communicate over the HS3 CAN bus. This is most likely why the addition of the 401A ACM enabled the sub-woofer output.
To take this a step farther I asked a colleague to see what was in his 16 GT 401A car (NON-NAV). His DSP module is engineering number FR3T-18T806-BR. I then went to Car Part Pro and using the same info as his car found pictures of 12 speaker Shaker DSPs and both of them had that same engineering number. I then went and used his VIN at fordparts.com and based on that VIN found that the part number for the 401A DSP is FR3Z-18B849-M. So taking this a step further I think I may order one of the BR suffixed DSPs and see if it will work with my bench top setup that i use to program ACM and APIMs and see if the base ACM removed from my 2017 will allow subwoofer out.

If this is the case then you can use [MENTION=32841]Benwilj[/MENTION] 's idea above and make a harness that uses an RCA cable with one of the Phono connectors cut off. You would take the positive and negative wire and add 1393366-1 pins and then put the positive in cavity 1, the negative in cavity 2 and if the RCA has shielding the shield would go in pin 3. You would then also add the 6V turn on in cavity 9 or use the 12V turn on in the trunk.

Hextall it is always informative to be corrected by you! What is a APIM? After your bench test I will be anxious to hear the result. Did Ford make any changes between 16 and 17 on the DSP's? That way I can what ebay to pick up 401A DSP.

THANKS

cking said:

Hextall it is always informative to be corrected by you! What is a APIM? After your bench test I will be anxious to hear the result. Did Ford make any changes between 16 and 17 on the DSP's? That way I can what ebay to pick up 401A DSP.

THANKS

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APIM = Accessory Protocol Interface Module aka Sync module. The brains of the audio system.

AFAIK any 401A DSP from 15-17 (probably 18 too) is the same. The difference externally will be the engineering number. I know that CM, CN and BN modules are for 400A and BR is for 401A. The next thing would be to ask those with 12 speaker systems to add what number is on their module.

What are they selling for on eBay?