Guess what? Motortrend favors the Camaro again

1 old racer · Mar 22, 2018

but these guys liked the Mustang

csmaan12 · Mar 23, 2018

martinjlm said:
Interior is a matter of personal taste. More people prefer the Mustang interior to the Camaro interior. I'm in the minority there. To me they are a coin flip. But, as far as what fits where....

Well said, its pretty hard to measure these things now since both for and Chevy have improved quite a bit over the years. Though I do think if someone is shopping for a base model SS/GT, they'd probably find the interior of the GT a bit better. Chevy's base models have a very obvious gap (in my opinion) between the premium trims and the base trims.

I think Ford does a better job at giving consumers a "good quality" base model trim. Of course I can't say a base GT is as good as a 401a GT with leather and all the goodies, but I can say "yeah this is just fine". In contrast when I looked at Camaros, seeing the base model vs the optioned out SS model, you feel almost a "need" to get the loaded model. The Mustang still has a quality feel to it, the SS feels like...hard plastic from a Chevy Venture.

thill444 · Mar 23, 2018

I don't get the interior comments. Both employ about the same level of materials and overall fit and finish. The Mustang has more of a retro vibe going on where the Camaro goes for more simple/modern. Neither have amazing interiors, but you don't buy these cars for luxury. The Camaro feels more claustrophobic for sure, but if you actually look at the interior dimensions of the cars they are very close. It's just the more narrow windows and higher beltline of the Camaro that makes it feel smaller.

The trunk of the Camaro is smaller, but I suspect most people that need a vehicle that provides lots of storage are not looking at Pony cars anyway.

Norm Peterson · Mar 23, 2018

thill444 said:
I don't get the interior comments. Both employ about the same level of materials and overall fit and finish. The Mustang has more of a retro vibe going on where the Camaro goes for more simple/modern. Neither have amazing interiors, but you don't buy these cars for luxury. The Camaro feels more claustrophobic for sure, but if you actually look at the interior dimensions of the cars they are very close. It's just the more narrow windows and higher beltline of the Camaro that makes it feel smaller.

Exactly. Only the Camaro's supposedly "dash-level" vent location and its e-Pbrake (my wife's Subie has an e-Pbrake and I don't like it at all) are enough different to matter.

On the matter of trunk space, even in the Mustang it's more a matter of shape than volume.

Norm

jake_zx2 · Mar 23, 2018

Also, the mustang just uses better materials everywhere. Hell, even the motor trend guys pointed out that, on the Camaro, every surface they touched was hard plastic. The only thing notably better about the Camaro interior is that there's a full screen infotainment center on every package, but even that is awkwardly mounted and not all that great. Not only are the materials on the mustang better, but the ergonomics

thill444 · Mar 23, 2018

jake_zx2 said:
Also, the mustang just uses better materials everywhere. Hell, even the motor trend guys pointed out that, on the Camaro, every surface they touched was hard plastic. The only thing notably better about the Camaro interior is that there's a full screen infotainment center on every package, but even that is awkwardly mounted and not all that great. Not only are the materials on the mustang better, but the ergonomics

Everyplace you normally touch in a Camaro has soft materials. Yes, like most cars, there is hard plastic too (like in the upper dash). I sat in mutiple 17-18 Camaro's and multiple 18 Mustangs. The materials really are not drastically different. Both cars are big improvements over prevoius generation but neither will be mistaken for a Lexus or Audi inside.

Complaining about visibility is one thing, but there is no drastic difference in matrials and overall technology. They are very much on par. The Mustang has better visibility and slightly more room inside and the Camaro is the better driving and performing car for the money. Trade-offs. I also prefer the Mustang overall styling.

SlaughterOfTheSoul · Mar 23, 2018

thill444 said:
The Mustang has better visibility and slightly more room inside and the Camaro is the better driving and performing car for the money.

The Camaros where I live sell for about 7k more than the mustangs so I think it's a bit region specific. I got my pp1 2018 mustang for less than where the SS camaros start.

Mustangs definitely sell below MSRP here. I can see why enthusiasts get excited when they know they're going to change everything about the car anyways.

thill444 · Mar 23, 2018

SlaughterOfTheSoul said:
The Camaros where I live sell for about 7k more than the mustangs so I think it's a bit region specific. I got my pp1 2018 mustang for less than where the SS camaros start.

Mustangs definitely sell below MSRP here. I can see why enthusiasts get excited when they know they're going to change everything about the car anyways.

It depends on how you load up a Mustang. I was getting $4-5K off 2018 GT's and about $3K off Camaro's. The Mustang is definitely cheaper unless you start loading them up then they are very close in price after discount.

I have seen SS 1LE's for under $40K from time to time and that is a crazy value for that car, but around me they are usually $42-43K.

jake_zx2 · Mar 23, 2018

SlaughterOfTheSoul said:
The Camaros where I live sell for about 7k more than the mustangs so I think it's a bit region specific. I got my pp1 2018 mustang for less than where the SS camaros start.

Mustangs definitely sell below MSRP here.

Same here, I custom ordered a GT Premium 401A with recaros and shaker system for only about $2k more than a 1SS

Camaro isn't "the better performing and driving car for the money", they can both be priced about the same with most of the same amenities and have the same performance. You just have to cross shop equally. Like they said in the video, Chevy gave them "the editor's special", which was an absolute base Camaro with 1LE package. Ford sent a nearly fully loaded PP1, which should have been put up against a loaded 2SS, not a base 1LE

thill444 · Mar 23, 2018

jake_zx2 said:
Same here, I custom ordered a GT Premium 401A with recaros and shaker system for only about $2k more than a 1SS

Camaro isn't "the better performing and driving car for the money", they can both be priced about the same with most of the same amenities and have the same performance. You just have to cross shop equally. Like they said in the video, Chevy gave them "the editor's special", which was an absolute base Camaro with 1LE package. Ford sent a nearly fully loaded PP1, which should have been put up against a loaded 2SS, not a base 1LE

We can debate 1PP vs 2SS or 2PP vs 1LE, but until the 2PP is put up against a 1LE the Camaro is the better performing car. The rest is speculation.

I personally would be very surprised if a 2PP beats a 1LE at the track. I felt the 2SS I drove to be the better drivers car to the 1PP. The Camaro makes noticebly more troque down low as well. I just much prefer Mustang styling.

1320' · Mar 23, 2018

Dealers in my area are always stupid when it comes to pricing on the Camaro.

9 years ago I was all about the 5th Gen Camaro, but my local dealers played the whole "well it's a limited production sports car.." and wouldn't budge off a $10,000 markup on a 1SS automatic..

I kindly declined and my local Dodge dealer was super hungry for sales and did a straight MSRP deal on a Challenger R/T.

The moral of the story is..generally GM dealers are idiots and believe their own bullshit about how the car is "absolutely world class" and "supercar beating!".

jake_zx2 · Mar 23, 2018

Sure, it's speculation, but it's also worth noting. PP1 and SS put down similar numbers and have similar price points. To say that the camaro is the better performing car is simply coming to a blind conclusion.

I doubt there will be a big gap between the 1LE and PP2. Only place the 1LE will have an advantage is longevity because of the cooling they offer. I really prefer high revving engines to low end torque. Low end torque just gets boring to me.

Arthonon · Mar 23, 2018

I'd agree that the 1LE is a better track car than any Mustang other than the GT350 and possibly the PP2 (haven't seen any performance info on it yet). A lot of stuff is personal, but for me, that track performance would have to be the only thing that mattered for me to get a Camaro.

I'm not wild about the looks, and I hate the interior - the interior just looks kind of bland and spartan. Other than the center screen, which just looks odd, there isn't much to look at outside the driver instrument cluster. And to me, that cluster is a mess. It has a HUD, which is cool, but the actual cluster is ungainly and ugly to me.

I saw a "The Fast Lane Car" video where two guys were talking about the Camaro, and one of them being a little tall couldn't see traffic lights at intersections, and the other guy being short couldn't see well over the console. I think that, and the overall poor visibility and dark-feeling cabin, are what hurt the car's sales more than anything. People get in it and just don't like it, and since most people don't care about at-the-edge track performance, that part doesn't override their reaction.

thill444 · Mar 23, 2018

Arthonon said:
I'd agree that the 1LE is a better track car than any Mustang other than the GT350 and possibly the PP2 (haven't seen any performance info on it yet). A lot of stuff is personal, but for me, that track performance would have to be the only thing that mattered for me to get a Camaro.

I'm not wild about the looks, and I hate the interior - the interior just looks kind of bland and spartan. Other than the center screen, which just looks odd, there isn't much to look at outside the driver instrument cluster. And to me, that cluster is a mess. It has a HUD, which is cool, but the actual cluster is ungainly and ugly to me.

I saw a "The Fast Lane Car" video where two guys were talking about the Camaro, and one of them being a little tall couldn't see traffic lights at intersections, and the other guy being short couldn't see well over the console. I think that, and the overall poor visibility and dark-feeling cabin, are what hurt the car's sales more than anything. People get in it and just don't like it, and since most people don't care about at-the-edge track performance, that part doesn't override their reaction.

The Camaro is defintitely more polarizing. I don't understand some of the design choices they made either, especially since they nailed the handling on these cars. I believe that, along with the higher prices and less incentives, are hurting sales. But I will say I loved my time behind the wheel of both the 2SS and 1LE. If they had a bigger backseat I might be driving a 1LE now. To be fair, there are no 2PP's anywhere near me to test drive and I would love to drive one. But I have to have a car with a functional backseat for another 7 years or so....

Arthonon · Mar 23, 2018

I've wondered how sales would have been if the Camaro had been similarly styled to the Malibu, which I think is a nice looking car. I don't mean they should make it look like a Malibu now, but had that Malibu not been released, and a Camaro came out looking kind of like what a Malibu coupe of that style would look like (with maybe some more aggressive front and rear treatments), but still based on the same chassis and engine options as the current Camaro, I think it would have sold much better.

Guess what? Motortrend favors the Camaro again

1 old racer

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csmaan12

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thill444

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Norm Peterson

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jake_zx2

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thill444

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SlaughterOfTheSoul

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thill444

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jake_zx2

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thill444

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1320'

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jake_zx2

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Arthonon

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thill444

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Arthonon

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