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Lost traction on the highway

WildHorse

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This:



Most of these retards have no business owning a high horsepower car. Furthermore, if you driving experience is limited, and you decide to buy this type of vehicles, a high performance driving course should be mandatory. JMO.
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Norm Peterson

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That is one hell of an endorsement.
Although I didn't have any datalogging at the time, I did notice that camera shake was beginning somewhere in the one-teens (about 12:20) but the car still felt stuck down pretty good. Wasn't even a cause for seat-puckering at around 11:00, plenty of grip for braking and maneuvering.

[ame]


Norm
 

F0J

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I'm inclined to blame EPAS, shock/strut damping that's biased more toward comfort than performance, and higher levels of NVH reduction. The driver is more isolated from what's happening down at the four contact patches.
Stock, the car is very floaty and IMO, difficult to drive spirited with confidence. It doesn't communicate what the tires are doing well, nor do the front and rear feel connected. It doesn't take much to fix that, fortunately.

Well I'm happy I'm not the only one. Something that I will surely change.


The one rain day I felt pretty confident in the transitions but on the straight? I probably had this hilarious blank stare of death. It didn't help that the puddles were cooling my front driver and I don't have much experience with that feeling. The car's chassis deficiencies were pretty obvious then.


*goes off to talk to wife about putting a few "small" amounts of money into the sports car*


Curious tho that Ford keeps the car a little unhinged on the street.
 

DickR

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Best guess, 8.5 or 9 32nds. There were a couple of track days plus a couple thousand street miles on them at the time.


Norm
Makes sense. Obviously with half that much tread depth or with more water depth from wear ruts or puddles on typical highways hydroplaning is always a risk even without significant throttle application.
 

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BmacIL

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Well I'm happy I'm not the only one. Something that I will surely change.


The one rain day I felt pretty confident in the transitions but on the straight? I probably had this hilarious blank stare of death. It didn't help that the puddles were cooling my front driver and I don't have much experience with that feeling. The car's chassis deficiencies were pretty obvious then.


*goes off to talk to wife about putting a few "small" amounts of money into the sports car*


Curious tho that Ford keeps the car a little unhinged on the street.
Unhinged = soft and cruiser-ey. I think the level of damping alone is something that could've addressed much of it, but there's also quite a bit in the rear subframe wobbling around under power.

With $1000 you can make this thing handle like a sports car and keep good ride quality. With ~$200 you can fix the waywardness under acceleration, whether in a straight line or coming out of a corner.
 

F0J

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Unhinged = soft and cruiser-ey. I think the level of damping alone is something that could've addressed much of it, but there's also quite a bit in the rear subframe wobbling around under power.

With $1000 you can make this thing handle like a sports car and keep good ride quality. With ~$200 you can fix the waywardness under acceleration, whether in a straight line or coming out of a corner.

I meant more how the nannies let the driver get into trouble. I'm sure Ford could have thrown money at making it .. safer for inexperienced drivers? But they chose not to.


We, as track rats, have to blow all the engines so that 18 year olds aren't driving S550s in 10 years.
 

sdiver68

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It's kind of ironic. In other HP vehicle forums there are many complaints about nannies. Here, there is concern over lack of nannies. I remember when the M5 came out with 500hp but that last 100 was only accessible via a menu based procedure. Everyone hated that!

Of course it's just electronics, manufacturers could give us a default overly intrusive mode and allow enthusiasts to select start-up preferences to a less obtrusive mode.
 

69mach1-395

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Why would anyone setup an autocross track in a parking lot full of trees? Now that was dumb...
 

Norm Peterson

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Why would anyone setup an autocross track in a parking lot full of trees? Now that was dumb...
So was holding up the roof by a passenger during a hot lap (around 3:38). Same person, maybe . . . maybe related to the driver who couldn't just throw the run away after spinning to a full stop on course.


Norm
 

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NightmareMoon

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Why would anyone setup an autocross track in a parking lot full of trees? Now that was dumb...
It didn't look like a real autox. No corner workers and the cones looked like the wrong type. Probably an amateur effort gone wrong.
 
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michail71

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I meant more how the nannies let the driver get into trouble. I'm sure Ford could have thrown money at making it .. safer for inexperienced drivers? But they chose not to.


We, as track rats, have to blow all the engines so that 18 year olds aren't driving S550s in 10 years.
I'm the OP and today I under similar but dry conditions the car did the same thing in "Normal" mode. While on the highway it downshifted and hit 3-4K RPM infractions of a second.

I recall in BMW and Mercedes forums people really complaining about the sluggish or delayed throttle response on similar powered engines.

Normally I do like that nice throttle response and downshift but in bad conditions ... the driver here would have to take active action beforehand to set the car to snow/wet or go full manual mode. Given a manual transmission I would have not downshifted as much by muscle memory and instinct.

I don't have the performance driving experience but I have a degree in engineering and 30+ years of driving and I still got into some trouble.
 

Norm Peterson

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I meant more how the nannies let the driver get into trouble.
That's the way I read it. I can see where it could become easy for a driver to assume that they've got his six no matter what the conditions are or what silliness the driver is attempting. Plus, the driver normally isn't allowed to learn the difference in car feel as it gets up near the limits, some sport modes perhaps excepted, so he won't even know how close he might be getting to blowing clear through his own limits or even beyond what the nannies can correct for.


Norm
 
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DickR

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I'm the OP and today I under similar but dry conditions the car did the same thing in "Normal" mode. While on the highway it downshifted and hit 3-4K RPM infractions of a second.

I recall in BMW and Mercedes forums people really complaining about the sluggish or delayed throttle response on similar powered engines.

Normally I do like that nice throttle response and downshift but in bad conditions ... the driver here would have to take active action beforehand to set the car to snow/wet or go full manual mode. Given a manual transmission I would have not downshifted as much by muscle memory and instinct.

I don't have the performance driving experience but I have a degree in engineering and 30+ years of driving and I still got into some trouble.
The solution I use with my 18 GT PP is very small throttle movement if I don't want the trans to downshift more than 1 gear if any. I don't know if this applies in your case but I found years ago it helps to avoid shoes with thick soles for even normal driving because it is hard to feel the pedals. However, I've been driving V8 Mustangs with manual and automatic transmissions in "slippery" (wet and/or snow and ice) conditions since 1969. :)

Edit to add: Based on a drive this morning it takes a lot of throttle to go from 1500 rpm or so in 10th to a low enough gear to reach 3 - 4K rpm but it doesn't take that much throttle to get enough acceleration with or without downshifting to more than 2K or so to gain speed rapidly in slippery conditions.
 
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Norm Peterson

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Normally I do like that nice throttle response and downshift but in bad conditions ... the driver here would have to take active action beforehand to set the car to snow/wet or go full manual mode. Given a manual transmission I would have not downshifted as much by muscle memory and instinct.
What you're suggesting is exactly correct . . . and both of those tips are alien to the way cars with automatic transmissions are generally driven. You're actually asking the AT driver to adopt (or retain) some of the mental aspects of MT driving.

I don't know if it's even possible for most people to view the excitement of hitting a solid "kickdown" as being anything but a good thing. But with cars as powerful as some of today's cars are, people need to downplay it. Think of this as dialing the excitement factor down to about 3 instead of up to 11.


I don't have the performance driving experience but I have a degree in engineering and 30+ years of driving and I still got into some trouble.
I couldn't find where you might have mentioned your specific engineering discipline, but whatever it might be I think spending some time thinking about "friction circle" concepts might help. Friction ellipse may be more accurate technically, but the basic idea is that the vector sum of lateral and longitudinal accelerations cannot exceed some certain value (one or both ends of the car will lose grip and start to slide outward instead, maybe violently so).


Norm
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