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Whipple car runs bad - tune issues

jgedde

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Since I installed my Whipple back in July, I have always had a problem with part throttle performance. Surging, hesitation, breaking up, etc. Just like running too lean. I found that the behavior is closely related to which gas I use.

Since I live in NY, the gas here is all 10% ethanol and we use seasonal blends. Since the switch over to winter season gas, the problem has become MUCH worse. It's very irritating. Oddly enough, until the car reaches operating temperature, it runs great and drives perfectly.

The car throws no codes, passes both K--- tests, idle great, etc. I've also had to replace two catalytic converters. It is stock apart from the Whipple and an ARK exhaust so the Whipple tune should be fine I would think.

There are no air leaks anywhere that I can find. My LT fuel trims are each within 3-4% of each other but both are as much as 14% under all conditions except at idle!

I've contacted Whipple for help, but they offered very little support and the tune guy doesn't respond to emails.

I'm wondering if I should just bite the bullet, call Whipple's "technologically advanced" tune and safety features junk and go with an aftermarket tune....

Hopefully someone here can offer a solution. It has all the behavior of a vacuum leak without any leaks or bad idle. All in all, I think she is just tuned way too lean for the crummy NY gas we have.

John
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superman07

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fuel quality shouldn't change stoich to the point your 14 percent off unless the ethanol percentage is way over 10 percent. Whipple on order, hopefully they show up here and give you a hand. Whipple kit came with injectors right, have you checked fuel pressure? It really sounds like your getting un-metered air somewhere or maf scaling maybe. Have you cleaned the maf for shits and giggles? It has done this from day one?

To confirm your adding or subtracting 14 percent fuel on ltft? Does the whipple tune take positive fuel trims into WOT or ignore them? Do you monitor lambda?
 
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jgedde

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fuel quality shouldn't change stoich to the point your 14 percent off unless the ethanol percentage is way over 10 percent. Whipple on order, hopefully they show up here and give you a hand. Whipple kit came with injectors right, have you checked fuel pressure? It really sounds like your getting un-metered air somewhere or maf scaling maybe. Have you cleaned the maf for shits and giggles? It has done this from day one?

To confirm your adding or subtracting 14 percent fuel on ltft? Does the whipple tune take positive fuel trims into WOT or ignore them? Do you monitor lambda?
Yes, I have cleaned the MAF and scoured the system for air leaks. I can find nothing.... Stoich for me is somewhere around 14.2:1 for our crummy gas. Lambda seems right. I've been suspecting the MAF or the scaling but don't know how to verify actual performance vs it's calibration.

The kit came with 72 lb injectors. My fuel pressure is 58 psi steady even at WOT.

John
 

superman07

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widebands on these cars are pretty cheap, I bought spares just in case. although both banks are the same so they are probably fine. I would try them on facebook too.

headers or any other modifications to the car? catch can?
 

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F1scamp

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Since I installed my Whipple back in July, I have always had a problem with part throttle performance. Surging, hesitation, breaking up, etc. Just like running too lean. I found that the behavior is closely related to which gas I use.

Since I live in NY, the gas here is all 10% ethanol and we use seasonal blends. Since the switch over to winter season gas, the problem has become MUCH worse. It's very irritating. Oddly enough, until the car reaches operating temperature, it runs great and drives perfectly.

The car throws no codes, passes both K--- tests, idle great, etc. I've also had to replace two catalytic converters. It is stock apart from the Whipple and an ARK exhaust so the Whipple tune should be fine I would think.

There are no air leaks anywhere that I can find. My LT fuel trims are each within 3-4% of each other but both are as much as 14% under all conditions except at idle!

I've contacted Whipple for help, but they offered very little support and the tune guy doesn't respond to emails.

I'm wondering if I should just bite the bullet, call Whipple's "technologically advanced" tune and safety features junk and go with an aftermarket tune....

Hopefully someone here can offer a solution. It has all the behavior of a vacuum leak without any leaks or bad idle. All in all, I think she is just tuned way too lean for the crummy NY gas we have.

John
You sure it didn't eat the cats that broke up? Leak down/ compression test? Mine runs great on NY gas with the stock whipple tune.
 
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jgedde

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Yes. I'm sure the cat failure didn't cause issues upstream. I did both a leakdown and a compression test. 230-240 psi on all cylinders and leakdown was very close to 0% A very tight motor!

John
 

Will@Whipple

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Sorry to hear of your issue's and I apologize if we have not responded back to you in a timely manner. I am concerned why you had to replace the catalytic converter's. Normally converters don't fail for no reason,
Misfiring is the most common cause of converter failure. Spark Plug gap is very important on this car's anything more then 0.030" and misfires will occur that's why we instruct 0.028"

Have you performed a Crank Relearn since the clutch replacement and after the converters where changed? Also on the Flare software do you have the Knock Limiting off or on?

Since I installed my Whipple back in July, I have always had a problem with part throttle performance. Surging, hesitation, breaking up, etc. Just like running too lean. I found that the behavior is closely related to which gas I use.

Since I live in NY, the gas here is all 10% ethanol and we use seasonal blends. Since the switch over to winter season gas, the problem has become MUCH worse. It's very irritating. Oddly enough, until the car reaches operating temperature, it runs great and drives perfectly.

The car throws no codes, passes both K--- tests, idle great, etc. I've also had to replace two catalytic converters. It is stock apart from the Whipple and an ARK exhaust so the Whipple tune should be fine I would think.

There are no air leaks anywhere that I can find. My LT fuel trims are each within 3-4% of each other but both are as much as 14% under all conditions except at idle!

I've contacted Whipple for help, but they offered very little support and the tune guy doesn't respond to emails.

I'm wondering if I should just bite the bullet, call Whipple's "technologically advanced" tune and safety features junk and go with an aftermarket tune....

Hopefully someone here can offer a solution. It has all the behavior of a vacuum leak without any leaks or bad idle. All in all, I think she is just tuned way too lean for the crummy NY gas we have.

John
 

pro 5.0

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I have the mods in my sig and I run 91 octane with 10% ethanol content and 1 can of Torco for good measure, I have the stock manifolds and cats with the Whipple tune car runs great. If you think the car is running lean doesn't your dash display the AFR you could see what it's reading during the stumbling you mention, that should indicate if it's lean or rich. Have you looked over your intake manifold for cracks some people have reported cracked manifolds might be something to check.
 
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jgedde

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Sorry to hear of your issue's and I apologize if we have not responded back to you in a timely manner. I am concerned why you had to replace the catalytic converter's. Normally converters don't fail for no reason,
Misfiring is the most common cause of converter failure. Spark Plug gap is very important on this car's anything more then 0.030" and misfires will occur that's why we instruct 0.028"

Have you performed a Crank Relearn since the clutch replacement and after the converters where changed? Also on the Flare software do you have the Knock Limiting off or on?
I did a crank relearn (profile learn). I installed new NGK 6510's gapped to 0.028". I have tried flare with KL turned both on and off. All made no difference.

The converters failed in a strange way... The upper element cracked. On one side it came loose and broke up then clogged the lower element. On the other side the element had about a 2" long crack 1/4" wide but the element did not come out. There was no sign of melting and apart from the crack, the element looked fine.

I'm really at my wits end with this issue as it makes the car annoying to drive.... Help me Obi Wan Kenobi!

The mysterious thing is the car runs great until it reaches operating temperature...

John
 

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Will@Whipple

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Cracked Intake Manifold's ? I have not seen one cracked Coyote manifold come in or had any trouble call's/email's on that nor has anyone in the office. The chance of a cracked manifold is near impossible for the quality control they go through. Can you send me over these reports?

I have the mods in my sig and I run 91 octane with 10% ethanol content and 1 can of Torco for good measure, I have the stock manifolds and cats with the Whipple tune car runs great. If you think the car is running lean doesn't your dash display the AFR you could see what it's reading during the stumbling you mention, that should indicate if it's lean or rich. Have you looked over your intake manifold for cracks some people have reported cracked manifolds might be something to check.
 

Will@Whipple

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Perfect, Do you recall what the Short Term Fuel Trim's are? Can you email over a data log of of the surging and I can review it and look it over.

That is awful strange of how the converters failed as well, almost sound's just purely defective from the Factory.

I did a crank relearn (profile learn). I installed new NGK 6510's gapped to 0.028". I have tried flare with KL turned both on and off. All made no difference.

The converters failed in a strange way... The upper element cracked. On one side it came loose and broke up then clogged the lower element. On the other side the element had about a 2" long crack 1/4" wide but the element did not come out. There was no sign of melting and apart from the crack, the element looked fine.

I'm really at my wits end with this issue as it makes the car annoying to drive.... Help me Obi Wan Kenobi!

The mysterious thing is the car runs great until it reaches operating temperature...

John
 

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pro 5.0

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Sorry I totally forgot that the Whipple uses it's own lower manifold, I was thinking of the stock plastic manifold for some other reason my apologies.
 
 




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