Tech Pack Lawsuit

According to google map 10 KM on the A62.

The A62 has no limit for almost 30 km heading from ramstien to baumholder

At 150mph that’s only like a few minutes

Enjoy your time in Germany. When you get back, 65 is like walking with a cane.

Hit me up if you are in the Northern Virginia DC area. I have found some really great German restaurants that we like.

$1000 spent on the car and the issue on track disappears, magic!

Only issue with this mod is if a problem occurs the dealer may try and make the warranty disappear!

TheDeadCow said:

So which is it? Can't drive unless it's freezing, moderately warm, or straight up balls out?

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I think they are all true.

On the street even on a 90 degree day you are unlikely to have a problem unless you are pushing really hard and you don't let up for quite a while.

On the track is obviously different.

Minn19 said:

Those that are thinking like you are chose to get involved in a discussion that never had anything to do with you. So how could you be thinking the same thing? :shrug:

Edit: Again the manual for the tech pack 350s went beyond just covering their asses about warranties.

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Regarding:

First paragraph - what?

Edit - The GT350 Manual and Supplement supplied in '15/'16 were the same whether your car was a Tech Pack or Track Pack. Verbage therein regarding the necessity for coolers and under what conditions isn't something that went forgotten. As far as any CYA...Ford (and just about every other business that produces something for public consumption) provides guidance with respect to their warranty program. Have you ever looked at the wording used by GM in their performance Camaro and Corvette manuals?

swish77 said:

Weren't all GT350 owners, including those who purchased the tech versions, invited to track their cars by Ford in the "Track Attack" in Utah? If the tech cars couldn't/shouldn't be tracked because of the coolers issue, why would Ford invite those owners to spend a day or two tracking the car?

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I think if you asked any of the staff in Utah, be it instructors, management, or those that service the GT350's, they would all tell you the same thing - if you want to push a GT350 at a Track you need a few common sense things. Among them, adequate cooling systems in place to avoid invoking protective and intrusive strategies that would initiate fairly quickly.

If the school needed additional cars back in '16 (for example) and all Ford could supply were Tech Pack cars, the school would have simply added the hardware necessary to avoid excessive temperatures that result from pushing a car on a track and then carried on.

They could have excluded Tech Pack owners, but why? Don't Tech Pack owners want to experience the same level of assuredness that Track Pack owners got when they paid for race ready thermal management hardware and a more track oriented seat as opposed to what Tech Pack owners paid for?

CSL said:

Lemers was going 150 on the autobahn passing a cop in his tech pack. No limp mode there.

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Impossible.

lemers said:

So lets break down my 150mph passing of a cop.

Its February in Germany and the temps are still in the 30s.
The distance was less than a few miles; so not 10 mins.
And I wasnt doing a lot of gear changes. Just 3, 4, and 5; for the bit of the driving.

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Coolant and oil temperatures either stabilize or exceed their recommended temperature threshold fairly quickly when driving at 150mph. If you didn't trigger any alternate strategies under those conditions it would probably be safe to say you aren't going to have a cooling issue elsewhere on the street or highway.

There are a ton of autobahn videos out there that tangibly demonstrate that when speeds increase, due to the heat exchange effects of cool air hitting the intake and radiators, oil and coolant temps are stable or even go down a little as speed increases. This occurs also in high-revving M5s and M3s at 8000+ RPM.

Wouldn't expect limp mode in a 150+ mph situation on a long stretch where there isn't much change in loads or gear shifting.

CSL said:

Lemers was going 150 on the autobahn passing a cop in his tech pack. No limp mode there.

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god almighty, why do I keep clicking on this link.....

Shame on me

Tank said:

Thanks [MENTION=7132]Trackaholic[/MENTION]. You bring up a good point on the Engine Cooler. Me and the folks at my dealership were surprised to find it.

I’m ambivalent about the lawsuit and am not a party to it. I agree the owners will see nothing to minimal. What I do think is reasonable, given the anomaly of trans/diff coolerless GT350s, would be for Ford to warranty the trans swap (that I pay for) and warranty an integrated, fully OEM operating diff cooler(again on my dime).

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Yeah, that would actually seem like a pretty fair outcome. Owners who want a cooler can buy it, knowing that it and all related components would still be covered under warranty if anything were to go wrong. No corporate BS about incorrect installation, particles causing failures, etc.

-T

swish77 said:

As a former tech GT350 owner...... I never had a hint of a problem with the car during 9500 miles.

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Hey [MENTION=19711]swish77[/MENTION],

Did you activate your trans temp guage in your Tech? If so, did you see how hot the trans fluid got? Also, did you install and monitor your differential fluid temps? If so, did you see how hot the diff fluid got?

Epiphany said:

I think if you asked any of the staff in Utah, be it instructors, management, or those that service the GT350's, they would all tell you the same thing - if you want to push a GT350 at a Track you need a few common sense things. Among them, adequate cooling systems in place to avoid invoking protective and intrusive strategies that would initiate fairly quickly.

If the school needed additional cars back in '16 (for example) and all Ford could supply were Tech Pack cars, the school would have simply added the hardware necessary to avoid excessive temperatures that result from pushing a car on a track and then carried on.
What about the safety gear, Recarros, caster/camber plates?

Coolant and oil temperatures either stabilize or exceed their recommended temperature threshold fairly quickly when driving at 150mph. If you didn't trigger any alternate strategies under those conditions it would probably be safe to say you aren't going to have a cooling issue elsewhere on the street or highway.

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Yes, it's widely accepted the Tech can have short bursts of high speed.
What if the stretch of autobahn was 200 km long, ambient temps higher and the 150 mph run was for 40 minutes?
Consider this: Lemers has his ten minute, 150 mph run, waves at the cop then hits the ausfahrt to pick up a buddy who lives a minute away. As all Tech owners who've activated their trans temp gauge (thank you for your contribution to that happening btw) know, he sees his trans temps spiking steadily and knows they'll continue to rise for the next 5-10 minutes or more depending on the ambient conditions, load, and his style of driving. He then goes back on the autobahn and brings the GT350 back up to 150 while ripping through the gears. He sees the heat still rising in the transmission. With the added load, his temperatures would continue to rise and eventually hit limp mode.
[MENTION=19066]Epiphany[/MENTION], how much time have you spent in a Tech pack w the trans temp gauge enabled but without a trans cooler installed? Have you been able to study the real life conditions leading to high trans temps?

Tank said:

Consider this:
Lemers has his ten minute, 150 mph run, waves at the cop then hits the ausfahrt to pick up a buddy who lives a minute away. As all Tech owners who've activated their trans temp gauge (thank you for your contribution to that happening btw) know, he sees his trans temps spiking steadily and knows they'll continue to rise for the next 5-10 minutes or more depending on the ambient conditions, load, and his style of driving. He then goes back on the autobahn and brings the GT350 back up to 150 while ripping through the gears. He sees the heat still rising in the transmission. With the added load, his temperatures would continue to rise and eventually hit limp mode.
[MENTION=19066]Epiphany[/MENTION], how much time have you spent in a Tech pack w the trans temp gauge enabled but without a trans cooler installed? Have you been able to study the real life conditions leading to high trans temps?

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My experience:
Activated Trans Temp Gauge at 300 miles, street driving only up to 9,500 miles when I installed my cooler. Max temp on a 98 deg day in summer with an hour of driving was 205, this was after an hour of mixed stop and go and aggressive driving (won't mention speeds on the country backroad here). In my experience not enough to hit limp mode, imagine it would take hours of driving. I will say that it will keep slowly climbing. The only way to get it to decline is to turn the car off. I don't really need a cooler, but wanted it just in case. Now I turn it on at about 165 and then off a few minutes later at 140. Activated my rear diff gauge about 500 miles ago, max temp so far is 157, 88 degree day one hour of driving.

FogcitySF said:

There are a ton of autobahn videos out there that tangibly demonstrate that when speeds increase, due to the heat exchange effects of cool air hitting the intake and radiators, oil and coolant temps are stable or even go down a little as speed increases. This occurs also in high-revving M5s and M3s at 8000+ RPM.

Wouldn't expect limp mode in a 150+ mph situation on a long stretch where there isn't much change in loads or gear shifting.

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I agree that maintaining temperatures with external air-liquid heat exchangers is feasible at high speed. That's what they are designed to do.

In this instance, we are talking about a non-externally cooled transmission. At 150MPH, the heat source within the transmission (friction/drivetrain loss) is much higher than that of normal highway driving, due to the increased loads. Additionally, the local components that radiate heat into the trans (cats and exhaust) are operating at significantly higher temperatures than normal, thus radiating more. We've all seen videos of exhausts glowing red under high loads. Granted, there is additional air flow over the trans at high speeds, the question is whether that increase in flow can compensate for the increased power being generated both internally and through radiation (and convection from the exhaust). My opinion, based on the amount of trans surface area actually exposed to the air stream under the car would be no, not for an extended period of time. After some unknown period of time at 150mph, the un-cooled trans will most likely overheat.

The fact that, in this instance, the trans did not overheat during this run adds to my skepticism that un-cooled transmissions are overheating in traffic, a significantly more benign environment.

All skeptics, temporarily disconnect and plug your transmission and cooler lines, get some real world experience on the issues your opining about. :lol:

So I wasnt watching the temp guage the other day at 150; but this morning heading the back down the autobuahn; I was.

130 mph top speed (more traffic on the road)
23 degrees outsde
Still about 10 mins

Topped 90 degrees in the trans on the autobuahn
Hit 105 degrees on the B roads heading to base at around 50 mph and more shifting

So yes temps continue to climb after the high speed run

lemers said:

So I wasnt watching the temp guage the other day at 150; but this morning heading the back down the autobuahn; I was.

130 mph top speed (more traffic on the road)
23 degrees outsde
Still about 10 mins

Topped 90 degrees in the trans on the autobuahn
Hit 105 degrees on the B roads heading to base at around 50 mph and more shifting

So yes temps continue to climb after the high speed run

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Are you running B roads in the winter on stock tires? No issues?