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Road and Track Article on the PP2 - It's not a track car

choate

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Ford called it a Track Pack if I remember back in 2012. Got their butt whipped on the track and then in 2015 it became the "performance pack". LOL. And i'm a hard core Ford guy. GM Whoops the Mustangs butt on the track apples for apples. At least on the factory optioned cars.
 

Eritas

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Now the track rats come out of the woodwork complaining. There have been a lot of socialists posting on these threads saying that they don't coolers (or even for it to be an option on any GT) because they don't "need" it, so they don't want you to have the ability to have it. I guess they won this round and Ford made the PP2 accordingly. It's apparent that the high Mustang sales and lack of vocal demand for coolers have made them a low priority for Ford. They could easily have put coolers on it if the demand was there.

As far as competing with the GT350, the new 19 is much faster than the 15-18, so I don't see PP2 as a threat. No one buys SS' or 1LEs. If you want a track car, get a Camaro or call and bug Ford demanding them.
 

millhouse

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Now the track rats come out of the woodwork complaining. There have been a lot of socialists posting on these threads saying that they don't coolers (or even for it to be an option on any GT) because they don't "need" it, so they don't want you to have the ability to have it. I guess they won this round and Ford made the PP2 accordingly. It's apparent that the high Mustang sales and lack of vocal demand for coolers have made them a low priority for Ford. They could easily have put coolers on it if the demand was there.

As far as competing with the GT350, the new 19 is much faster than the 15-18, so I don't see PP2 as a threat. No one buys SS' or 1LEs. If you want a track car, get a Camaro or call and bug Ford demanding them.
The thing is, there isn't enough of a demand to justify the costs...or the risk of running too close to the GT350 (track duty, not dragstrip). Ford will gladly sacrifice the few buyers that really need coolers for track duty in favor of saving money on their vehicles and push those that need it to the more expensive GT350. That's not to say we have to like it, it's quite frankly embarrassing.
 

Bumzo1

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I run local HPDE events with a healthy amount of 1LEs running around. If you think the dedicated track rats are taking their stock 1LEs to the track, you would be very wrong. They tweak suspension and upgrade parts just like everyone else. The ones that do bring their stock 1LEs probably don't yet have the driver skill to see the difference between the PP2 and the 1LE.

I personally drive a 16 GT PP premium that I got for $34.1k (MSRP $40k) and have a friend that bought a 1LE a few months later for $42k. Since then I've done coilovers ($3100 new but I got them second hand for $1700), swaybars ($500), and 19x11 wheels and tires ($2500). My friend has swapped tires, swapped springs, done swaybars and bushings, and removed parts of the interior to save weight.

Our local track is MSR Cresson 1.7 CCW where my best time so far has been a 1:26 and his a 1:23. I attribute those 3 seconds to driver skill (I'm probably 85% the driver he is), tires (I have old RS3s and he has new 71Rs), and power difference (he pulls on the straights). I think I could close the gap with about $2000 between tires and a tune, and some more experience. Overall I think my car is a pretty good value for the performance. Meanwhile, Terry Fair in his 2018 base GT with only a set of whiteline coilovers and 71Rs ran the same time as the aforementioned 1LE and would have gone faster had he been able to run more than 2 laps a heat before fading the base brakes.

Moral of the story is the PP2 might not be perfect track car but neither is the 1LE. Buy what you like for the 95% of the time you aren't at the track because at the end of the day the better driver is going to win no matter which car they choose.
 

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Eritas

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The thing is, there isn't enough of a demand to justify the costs...or the risk of running too close to the GT350 (track duty, not dragstrip). Ford will gladly sacrifice the few buyers that really need coolers for track duty in favor of saving money on their vehicles and push those that need it to the more expensive GT350. That's not to say we have to like it, it's quite frankly embarrassing.
Too close to the 350? They made the 2019 GT350 faster...
 

ghig302

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The only new Mustang I would buy is the Bullitt, and Ford will probably price it at $50k or so, and to me, a Mustang is a Mustang, and is not worth $50k no matter what dressing it has.
 

thehunterooo

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I run local HPDE events with a healthy amount of 1LEs running around. If you think the dedicated track rats are taking their stock 1LEs to the track, you would be very wrong. They tweak suspension and upgrade parts just like everyone else. The ones that do bring their stock 1LEs probably don't yet have the driver skill to see the difference between the PP2 and the 1LE.

I personally drive a 16 GT PP premium that I got for $34.1k (MSRP $40k) and have a friend that bought a 1LE a few months later for $42k. Since then I've done coilovers ($3100 new but I got them second hand for $1700), swaybars ($500), and 19x11 wheels and tires ($2500). My friend has swapped tires, swapped springs, done swaybars and bushings, and removed parts of the interior to save weight.

Our local track is MSR Cresson 1.7 CCW where my best time so far has been a 1:26 and his a 1:23. I attribute those 3 seconds to driver skill (I'm probably 85% the driver he is), tires (I have old RS3s and he has new 71Rs), and power difference (he pulls on the straights). I think I could close the gap with about $2000 between tires and a tune, and some more experience. Overall I think my car is a pretty good value for the performance. Meanwhile, Terry Fair in his 2018 base GT with only a set of whiteline coilovers and 71Rs ran the same time as the aforementioned 1LE and would have gone faster had he been able to run more than 2 laps a heat before fading the base brakes.

Moral of the story is the PP2 might not be perfect track car but neither is the 1LE. Buy what you like for the 95% of the time you aren't at the track because at the end of the day the better driver is going to win no matter which car they choose.
Yikes people are modding 1LEs?
 

2018OFPP1?2

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~$50K? My 301A PP2 with active exhaust and Recaros was $38,750. For ~$50K, I could add coolers and a whipple. Everyone can say what they want, but I feel I got pretty damn good value for the money (assuming the engine doesn't blow up and the tranny doesn't break). As for snow tires, she'll be sitting in a heated garage on snowy days. That's what 4-wheel drive is for.
If you go full tilt 401a, it was $54k MSRP iirc.YMMV :D

Not my DD, so no winter tires for me either. Hell I may just continue to run cup 2s unless I hear something good about the ps4s on this car.
 

Ace

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Didn't the GT350 already had a lot of cooling issues when it launched so they made the optional cooling package stuff mandatory for the next modelyear? I get that they want to have a gap between PP2 and GT350, but it is still a pretty disappointing decision.
 

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Silver Bullitt

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If you go full tilt 401a, it was $54k MSRP iirc.YMMV :D

Not my DD, so no winter tires for me either. Hell I may just continue to run cup 2s unless I hear something good about the ps4s on this car.

My point was, if you don't want leather, digital dash, and some of the other bells and whistles, you can still get a nicely optioned GT with the performance of the PP2 for an occasional track day for a helluva lot less than $50K. :cheers:
 

Norm Peterson

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Yikes people are modding 1LEs?
Wanting to make a 1LE the best it can be . . . no different than with any other car once it starts to get seriously tracked.

There's a guy on Camaro6 with a slightly modded 1LE who runs NJMP/Thunderbolt in the 1:29's - and complains about needing more front grip.


Norm
 
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5pointOh

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The only new Mustang I would buy is the Bullitt, and Ford will probably price it at $50k or so, and to me, a Mustang is a Mustang, and is not worth $50k no matter what dressing it has.
Probably? The Bullitt pricing has been out for months:shrug:
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