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E85 Vs 93

kiszl

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Wanted to know what fuel everyone was running at the track. I’ve heard mixed reviews about which is the right way to go so I wanted to open it up rock everyone. If there’s already a thread for this I apologize in advance
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BmacIL

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Well obviously E85 will have more power and detonation resistance in the heat, but it also has significantly worse economy. These cars use enough gas in a session already. I will be sticking with 93 for the track.
 

rubyinla

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E-85 eewwwww..... Only folks that like that have to be folks that grow corn.

This is the Ford brochure for the 2018's. It's a pdf file. Do a search on Octane. All the footnotes on power are obtained using 93 octane.

https://www.ford.com/services/assets/Brochure?make=Ford&model=Mustang&year=2018

It's the only way to go on the open road as well. Like bud,peewater,lite or a real beer. :)

https://www.speedfactoryracing.net/mustang-ecoboost-dyno-data

And you can't just go load up 91 Octane the day u want to go to the track. It takes time for the computer to learn, shall we say, the new octane.
 
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kiszl

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My bad I didn’t describe the information that I wanted clearly enough. I want to stay on 93 for the track but I heard that 93 tends to be more inconsistent than e85 when it comes to quality of fuel. So I wanted to hear everyone’s experiences with both when it came to consistency and overall health of the car during track days.
 

BmacIL

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My bad I didn’t describe the information that I wanted clearly enough. I want to stay on 93 for the track but I heard that 93 tends to be more inconsistent than e85 when it comes to quality of fuel. So I wanted to hear everyone’s experiences with both when it came to consistency and overall health of the car during track days.
I would disagree. Pumps are all over the place with ethanol % for E85. The highest full tank of it I've seen is 78% here.
 

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I use a 50/50 e85 mix in a turbo car, runs great and no KR in the Texas heat. Only problem is you will need to take about 10+ gallons to the track if no gas station nearby.

My car uses over 5 gallons per 20 min session, so I arrive with a full tank and carrying in 10 gallons of e85, which I mix at the track with 93 from a nearby gas station. Don’t forgot these Mustangs need to carry 1/2 tank or more to prevent surging in left hand turns.
 

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"When switching fuel octane, it takes some time for the PCM to adjust ignition timing to take advantage of the higher octane. This value is known as OAR - Octane Adjust Ratio and is a multiplier. It starts at 0 and learns from there based on knock feedback towards +1 for less than optimal fuel and towards -1 for high quality fuel. Our car was driven for 2 weeks after the change from 87 to 92 octane to ensure it was at -1 OAR and then the comparison pulls were made."


https://www.speedfactoryracing.net/mustang-ecoboost-dyno-data



Why even fiddle with E85? It's an expensive engine? I don't get it.




 

BmacIL

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"When switching fuel octane, it takes some time for the PCM to adjust ignition timing to take advantage of the higher octane. This value is known as OAR - Octane Adjust Ratio and is a multiplier. It starts at 0 and learns from there based on knock feedback towards +1 for less than optimal fuel and towards -1 for high quality fuel. Our car was driven for 2 weeks after the change from 87 to 92 octane to ensure it was at -1 OAR and then the comparison pulls were made."


https://www.speedfactoryracing.net/mustang-ecoboost-dyno-data



Why even fiddle with E85? It's an expensive engine? I don't get it.




Ethanol content learning and the associated fuel trim is not active in the PCM stock. You need a flex fuel tune for that. It works very well, and operates in the same way as the 2015-2017 F150 with the 5.0 or 3.5L NA on their stock calibrations. It's worth 15+ whp on an NA GT over a 93 tune and because of the burn characteristics (cooler) and octane rating (107 on 85% IIRC), is 'safer'. The big downside is that it requires upsized injectors and is about 30% less efficient to run.
 

Dr. Norts

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Ethanol content learning and the associated fuel trim is not active in the PCM stock. You need a flex fuel tune for that. It works very well, and operates in the same way as the 2015-2017 F150 with the 5.0 or 3.5L NA on their stock calibrations. It's worth 15+ whp on an NA GT over a 93 tune and because of the burn characteristics (cooler) and octane rating (107 on 85% IIRC), is 'safer'. The big downside is that it requires upsized injectors and is about 30% less efficient to run.
It doesn't require upsized injectors.
 

BmacIL

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It doesn't require upsized injectors.
Depends on your mods. For street driving on stock manifold and headers, no (I am running flex with stock injectors). If you increase airflow significantly and raise the rev limit, you'll run out of injector bandwidth. On the track I wouldn't risk running stock injectors as you're sitting at a very high duty cycle the entire time for extended sessions.

47 lbs for anything NA will take care of it, and some tuners won't do flex or E85 without them (or similar).
 

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"When switching fuel octane, it takes some time for the PCM to adjust ignition timing to take advantage of the higher octane. This value is known as OAR - Octane Adjust Ratio and is a multiplier. It starts at 0 and learns from there based on knock feedback towards +1 for less than optimal fuel and towards -1 for high quality fuel. Our car was driven for 2 weeks after the change from 87 to 92 octane to ensure it was at -1 OAR and then the comparison pulls were made."


https://www.speedfactoryracing.net/mustang-ecoboost-dyno-data



Why even fiddle with E85? It's an expensive engine? I don't get it.




Because E85 is awesome. Educate yourself before you start saying more stupid shit on a car enthusiast forum. Also, it doesn't take two weeks to get the OAR to learn, it can be done in 30 minutes. I know this from experience and calibrating on the Focus ST platform.
 

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"When switching fuel octane, it takes some time for the PCM to adjust ignition timing to take advantage of the higher octane. This value is known as OAR - Octane Adjust Ratio and is a multiplier. It starts at 0 and learns from there based on knock feedback towards +1 for less than optimal fuel and towards -1 for high quality fuel. Our car was driven for 2 weeks after the change from 87 to 92 octane to ensure it was at -1 OAR and then the comparison pulls were made."


https://www.speedfactoryracing.net/mustang-ecoboost-dyno-data



Why even fiddle with E85? It's an expensive engine? I don't get it.




You have an Ecoboost, you should be all over e85.....go do some research on the benefits of ethanol or e85 in a turbo direct injection engine then come back and tell us it still sucks....:headbonk::headbonk:
 

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"When switching fuel octane, it takes some time for the PCM to adjust ignition timing to take advantage of the higher octane. This value is known as OAR - Octane Adjust Ratio and is a multiplier. It starts at 0 and learns from there based on knock feedback towards +1 for less than optimal fuel and towards -1 for high quality fuel. Our car was driven for 2 weeks after the change from 87 to 92 octane to ensure it was at -1 OAR and then the comparison pulls were made."


https://www.speedfactoryracing.net/mustang-ecoboost-dyno-data



Why even fiddle with E85? It's an expensive engine? I don't get it.




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grabber yote

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I run E-85 with my Lund Flex Fuel tune. It only takes a couple miles for the everything to adjust from 93 to E85. E85 is superior to 93 octane in everyway except fuel economy. I personally don’t care that my GT gets 11mpg. The performance benefits are worth it.
 

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You need to do more research. You are selling yourself short not being tuned for E85.


"When switching fuel octane, it takes some time for the PCM to adjust ignition timing to take advantage of the higher octane. This value is known as OAR - Octane Adjust Ratio and is a multiplier. It starts at 0 and learns from there based on knock feedback towards +1 for less than optimal fuel and towards -1 for high quality fuel. Our car was driven for 2 weeks after the change from 87 to 92 octane to ensure it was at -1 OAR and then the comparison pulls were made."


https://www.speedfactoryracing.net/mustang-ecoboost-dyno-data



Why even fiddle with E85? It's an expensive engine? I don't get it.




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