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Should I baby my 18 EB PP and stay out of boost for 1K mi?

TxMStang

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Modern oil spec'd for the Mustang is never 'syrup' -especially full synthetic. Oil is being "forced" through the engine the second you crank it on a cold start. Oil today is light years different than 20 years ago.

As for driving cars easy - technology is a great thing. Piston rings have come a long way. It used to be recommended to not hold a certain speed, to accelerate then let off the gas quickly etc to help set the rings.

DRIVE IT.

The only difference for a turbo engine - and I'll admit I'm not even sure if that applies anymore with today's technology and computer controls - is that it was good for the turbo itself if you let the engine run at idle a bit before cutting it off. It allowed the turbo to cool as exhaust and intake temps dropped and prevented the turbo from 'cooking' the hot oil in the housing when the car was cut off. Back when I had a Turbo Buick 3.8 - I had installed a Turbo Timer.

I don't believe with todays oil especially synthetics that cooking oil is a problem with todays oil, what I will say is change your oil and change it often it is the life blood of your engine. I personally change every 5000 miles and have a Ford dealership do this for a reason so no one from Ford can say it was lack of or no maintenance and I have a record as do they. With all this said yes if you are out flogging your engine yes let it cool down before you shut it down but normal running should not cause a problem.
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Ebm

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I don't believe with todays oil especially synthetics that cooking oil is a problem with todays oil, what I will say is change your oil and change it often it is the life blood of your engine. I personally change every 5000 miles and have a Ford dealership do this for a reason so no one from Ford can say it was lack of or no maintenance and I have a record as do they. With all this said yes if you are out flogging your engine yes let it cool down before you shut it down but normal running should not cause a problem.
This isn't a kitchen man (Just playing with ya btw :lol:). Coking used to be a bigger problem because an old turbo was only oil cooled and everyone still used dyno oil. After running a turbocharged car hard, if you cut the motor off right away, the turbo would heat soak at extremely high temperatures causing deposits. It would also cause oil to lose its viscosity and lubricating qualities. That's why everyone back in the day had a turbo timer on their turbocharged car. Set it for a few minutes to cool the oil down. With the advancement of motor oils coupled with the fact that a turbo these days is water and oil cooled, a turbo could last quite some time under more stress.

I used to have an '03 VW Jetta TDI with an upgraded turbo(very small; VNT-17) made by Garrett. It was only oil cooled. The EGT gauge (measures exhaust temperature at its hottest point, which is in the turbo itself) in the car read up to 1500 and 1600 degrees F when I got on it. But these temperatures weren't sustained for very long. A few seconds at most. A good quality oil is very important for this reason. Your oil sees high temperatures and goes through quite a lot over 7500-10,000 miles.

Summary: Oil coking isn't an issue anymore with our cars since they are oil and water cooled. Use a good quality full synthetic oil. Full synthetic oils won't coke on you. Drive more, worry less.
 

HISSMAN

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12K miles on my GT. I ran her through here paces right from the word go. Now, I didn't do any high speed runs or anything. I just ran her the exact same way I run her now. I can say with certainty that everything is good to go. I changed the oil at 600 miles and again at 2k miles. At 2K miles I switched to Amsoil. I have since changed the oil 3 times and I get almost exactly 8qts back out of her on every change. So, I am not burning anything which means that my rings are seated well into the cylinders and not allowing any measurable blow by. I have no ticking or clinking sounds. Actually, as far as the engine goes, it is probably the smoothest running V8 I've ever owned.
 

TorqueMan

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Modern oil spec'd for the Mustang is never 'syrup' -especially full synthetic.
That's not necessarily true; it depends on the temps. This past winter saw below zero temps here in SW Illinois several times.



Oil is being "forced" through the engine the second you crank it on a cold start.
Yes, there is an oil pump, but there are also parts of the engine that rely on gravity for oil flow. Cold oil flows more slowly. Further, engines designers assume a certain operating temperature for optimum performance. Engines are manufactured from different materials that expand at different rates; parts clearances will change as engine temperature changes. You'll do your engine a big favor if you allow all its parts to get up to designed operating temperature before romping on it.

As for driving cars easy - technology is a great thing. Piston rings have come a long way. It used to be recommended to not hold a certain speed, to accelerate then let off the gas quickly etc to help set the rings.

DRIVE IT.
The worry over pison ring break in is mostly overblown in a liquid-cooled engine. The issue is too much heat. Here's the short version:

For optimum performance the piston rings need to form a seal agains the cylinder wall. This is best achieved by allowing normal engine operation to rub the piston ring against the cylinder wall until both parts wear down and match each other perfectly. This is piston ring break in in a nutshell.

To facilitate break in new cylinders are not polished smooth; they are honed to leave a cross hatch pattern. In addition, the ring face to the cylinder wall is not perfectly flat. During break in, the peaks of the cross hatching on the cylinder wall, along with a portion of the ring, wear away. When properly broken in, the piston ring face is worn mostly flat to the cylinder wall, and the peaks of the cross hatch are sheared off leaving a plateau for the rings to ride on. Shallow valleys in the cross hatch pattern will remain to retain lubricating oil. But there're a couple of catches.

First, you must create enough friction to facilitate break in, but not too much. The piston rings are forced against the piston wall by combustion pressure. The higher the combustion pressure the higher the pressure of the rings against the cylinder wall. The pressure causes friction, which produces heat. Too much heat, and the piston ring may expand too much, and its sharp edges may scuff or otherwise mar the cylinder wall, providing an opening between the ring and cylinder wall for oil, and more importantly for performance considerations, combustion pressure to escape. Every bit of combustion pressure that escapes between the ring and cylinder wall is pressure not used to push on the piston, so to get maximum performance you want a good seal.

With a modern, liquid-cooled engine you would have to try pretty hard to create enough heat to cause this kind of damage during break-in, but it's still a good idea not to push your engine too hard before it's fully broken in. Engine parts are manufactured to a specification, which allows size in a certain range. If you happen to have an engine whose cylinder bores are on the small end of the spec, with pistons and rings on the large end, your engine will see more heat during break-in. Enough to overcome the cooling system? Ford seems to think this is a possibility because it warns against full throttle/high RPM during break-in. Ignore that warning at your peril.

I'm not saying you should baby your engine (see below), but I would recommend that if you are a proponent of the drive-it-like-you-stole-it break-in process that you at least allow some time between hard runs for the engine to cool down.

The other issue is NOT ENOUGH combustion pressure. If the rings are not forced against the cylinder walls with enough pressure then the parts will not wear enough during the recommended break-in period. The engine will eventually break-in given enough time, but you'd like to know break-in is complete before you go out and really romp on it. So to be sure break-in is completed during the recommended break-in period you should use moderate power settings to provide enough combustion pressure. Unless you drive like a granny all the time. If that's the case, then it will eventually break in... sometime.

The only difference for a turbo engine - and I'll admit I'm not even sure if that applies anymore with today's technology and computer controls - is that it was good for the turbo itself if you let the engine run at idle a bit before cutting it off. It allowed the turbo to cool as exhaust and intake temps dropped and prevented the turbo from 'cooking' the hot oil in the housing when the car was cut off. Back when I had a Turbo Buick 3.8 - I had installed a Turbo Timer.
This was (and still is) an issue with turbochargers cooled by oil alone. For such turbochargers, oil in passages near the turbo bearing after shut down could coke up due to residual heat. Oil coking could block the oil passages eventually destroying the turbo. A cool down period allowed enough oil to flow through the turbo to remove the residual heat prior to shut down.

The turbos in our cars are cooled by both oil and engine coolant. You might get turbo oil coking if you do a maximum power drag run, then shut down the engine crossing the finish line and coast to a stop.

EDIT: EBM and I must have been typing at the same time. :)
 

ctandc72

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That's not necessarily true; it depends on the temps. This past winter saw below zero temps here in SW Illinois several times.

Yes, there is an oil pump, but there are also parts of the engine that rely on gravity for oil flow. Cold oil flows more slowly. Further, engines designers assume a certain operating temperature for optimum performance. Engines are manufactured from different materials that expand at different rates; parts clearances will change as engine temperature changes. You'll do your engine a big favor if you allow all its parts to get up to designed operating temperature before romping on it.
I understand that. What I was trying to say that modern oil is much removed from straight 30, 40 and even 50 weight oils from years ago when it comes to even cold temperature performance. I would think it would be understood to not drive a car hard until it reaches at least close to operating temp when we're talking about very cold temps.

Emissions requirements and the high temp thermostats that came with them, have mostly eliminated the need for long warm ups. Even in close to freezing temps, a modern car is up to operating temp - engine wise - in a few minutes. I'd be more mindful of the other lubricants having a chance to warm up to operating temp than I would oil.



The worry over pison ring break in is mostly overblown in a liquid-cooled engine. The issue is too much heat. Here's the short version:

For optimum performance the piston rings need to form a seal agains the cylinder wall. This is best achieved by allowing normal engine operation to rub the piston ring against the cylinder wall until both parts wear down and match each other perfectly. This is piston ring break in in a nutshell.

To facilitate break in new cylinders are not polished smooth; they are honed to leave a cross hatch pattern. In addition, the ring face to the cylinder wall is not perfectly flat. During break in, the peaks of the cross hatching on the cylinder wall, along with a portion of the ring, wear away. When properly broken in, the piston ring face is worn mostly flat to the cylinder wall, and the peaks of the cross hatch are sheared off leaving a plateau for the rings to ride on. Shallow valleys in the cross hatch pattern will remain to retain lubricating oil. But there're a couple of catches.

First, you must create enough friction to facilitate break in, but not too much. The piston rings are forced against the piston wall by combustion pressure. The higher the combustion pressure the higher the pressure of the rings against the cylinder wall. The pressure causes friction, which produces heat. Too much heat, and the piston ring may expand too much, and its sharp edges may scuff or otherwise mar the cylinder wall, providing an opening between the ring and cylinder wall for oil, and more importantly for performance considerations, combustion pressure to escape. Every bit of combustion pressure that escapes between the ring and cylinder wall is pressure not used to push on the piston, so to get maximum performance you want a good seal.

With a modern, liquid-cooled engine you would have to try pretty hard to create enough heat to cause this kind of damage during break-in, but it's still a good idea not to push your engine too hard before it's fully broken in. Engine parts are manufactured to a specification, which allows size in a certain range. If you happen to have an engine whose cylinder bores are on the small end of the spec, with pistons and rings on the large end, your engine will see more heat during break-in. Enough to overcome the cooling system? Ford seems to think this is a possibility because it warns against full throttle/high RPM during break-in. Ignore that warning at your peril.

I'm not saying you should baby your engine (see below), but I would recommend that if you are a proponent of the drive-it-like-you-stole-it break-in process that you at least allow some time between hard runs for the engine to cool down.

The other issue is NOT ENOUGH combustion pressure. If the rings are not forced against the cylinder walls with enough pressure then the parts will not wear enough during the recommended break-in period. The engine will eventually break-in given enough time, but you'd like to know break-in is complete before you go out and really romp on it. So to be sure break-in is completed during the recommended break-in period you should use moderate power settings to provide enough combustion pressure. Unless you drive like a granny all the time. If that's the case, then it will eventually break in... sometime.
Again - I didn't think I needed to go into great detail. While definitely no expert, I've built more than a few engines. I remember when it was considered "over the top" to make every clearance match as close as possible instead of just using the factory recommended tolerance range...aka the "Blueprint".

My point was modern honing cylinder honing processes and modern piston rings do a much more efficient job of breaking in and in essence sealing up and doing their job.

My other point was that babying a new engine has no provable benefits whatsoever and some would even say that it could cause issues down the road.


Someone else summed it up best.

People need to stop worrying so much and drive it.
 

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TorqueMan

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Emissions requirements and the high temp thermostats that came with them, have mostly eliminated the need for long warm ups. Even in close to freezing temps, a modern car is up to operating temp - engine wise - in a few minutes. I'd be more mindful of the other lubricants having a chance to warm up to operating temp than I would oil.
I disagree with this. The coolant may be up to operating temp in a few minutes, but the oil takes much longer (watch your oil temp guage some time), and there is no way the block, pistons, crankshaft, camshaft, etc. are up to temp that fast. That's a lot of metal to warm up. And since dissimilar materials heat up and expand at different rates, it behooves you to get the entire engine up to operating temp before getting too jiggy with it. Depending on outside air temp, that can take up to 15 minutes.

My point was modern honing cylinder honing processes and modern piston rings do a much more efficient job of breaking in and in essence sealing up and doing their job.
Yes, improvements in material science and more precise manufacturing allows much closer part tolerances. Cylinder bores are far closer to actual circles these days than they used to be!

My other point was that babying a new engine has no provable benefits whatsoever and some would even say that it could cause issues down the road.
I agree to a point. I agree there's no benefit to babying the engine (besides better fuel economy; you get "Eco" or "Boost," but not both), but I don't believe there is any downside other than lengthening the break-in period. This goes back to the better materials and processes. If you baby it during the recommended break-in period and fail to complete the break in before putting it on a race track you might have an issue, but the circumstances required for that to occur would be exceedingly rare. For example, somehow I don't see someone who races cars breaking one in by driving like their grandmother.

I believe you can be MORE agressive with the break-in than recommended in the manual without endangering your engine, but you have to know what you're doing. You have to pay close attention to engine instruments, and understand what they're telling you. Done right, you can safely and fully seat the piston rings in a couple of hours tops, including time taken between runs for cooling. The recommendations in the user manual obviate the need for any understanding of the process, which is probably best for the vast majority of owners.
 
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prostovovatt

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So basically, with my 17 EB I stayed out of boost for the first 1K. With my 18 now, I am at 700 miles and just drive normally without being aggressive or going to redline. I will change my oil at 1K and that should do it.
 

justme97

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Dealer (salesperson contact who’s always been very knowledgeable about the car) told me 500 miles. Said they pre break in the engines at the factory and that’s why they let people get on the dealer stock during test drives. Soubds like bs to me though, thankfully I factory ordered!
 

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Dealer (salesperson contact who’s always been very knowledgeable about the car) told me 500 miles. Said they pre break in the engines at the factory and that’s why they let people get on the dealer stock during test drives. Soubds like bs to me though, thankfully I factory ordered!
I have heard this rumor for years, but no one has ever shown any evidence that it's true. If this were the case, then there would be no reason for manufacturers to recommend any particular behavior on the part of owners for the first thousand miles.
 

ctandc72

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A lot of opinions / things they heard etc are holdovers from older engines. Particularly when it comes to breaking in the camshaft. Roller camshafts pretty much did away with that worry. Old school flat tappet camshafts can easily wipe a lobe on start up if it isn't properly lubed and if it doesn't fire up and get to a decent RPM pretty quickly....I've witnessed more than a few. In fact my first engine rebuild (327) in 1987 wiped a lobe on the first fire up - lesson learned.

Your money, your time, your car. Do what you feel comfortable with. Pretty much the same thing for oil choice, oil change interval etc. Everyone has their own opinion and if I've learned anything in my years on this planet, it's that most people don't look for information that disagrees with what they currently believe to be true.
 

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PRG3k

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Soubds like bs to me though, thankfully I factory ordered!
Doesn't 'sound' like bs, it is.

I bought mine w 3K miles off the lot. For sure mine was a dealer workhorse. Flogged on testdrives and by employees. Had a feeling but it was completely loaded with an extra year & 10K miles of warranty. Perhaps subconsciously I was determined to get the weakest link to fail and get fixed before the warranty was up. She drank so much oil/fuel through the catch can I was emptying and checking it every month. Tons of timing pulled on most wide open runs. Low and behold, #3 blows out and motor needed a rebuild a year later. Thankfully it was all covered. Motor is much healthier after the rebuild. Hardly any timing pulled, good compression, and very little vapor blown through the motor.

Anyone is welcome to believe that dealer nonsense. I'm of some opinion that you can drive a new car pretty hard but what they fail to mention is the necessary precautions that are NOT being taken when doing so. Shutting off a hot turbo right off the road or boosting 20 psi when the oil is barely operable, and all of the other shit that happens on those test drives, you're welcome to whatever happens.
 

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People always think they know more than the top engineers that build the engines, If they didn't need break in they would say other wise on the owners manual, common sense right? Not in this day and age. So some say drive it like you stole it, okay so do the opposite of what the engineers say, smart. Here is a video that shows the break in of an NSX High-performance engine, they do the break in for the customers so it's track ready off the lot, some might assume they do this just to waste money, cause hey who needs more profits right?

procedure they run it 2k rpm 5 minutes, 3k rpm 20 minutes and another 4k for 20 minutes. This procedure coincides with fords recommendation of not abusing the shit out of it for the break in period which obviously is for a REASON. Now obviously ford is not going to be spending this extra money for economic sports cars, that's why they leave it up to you to follow the manual.

[ame]
 
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prostovovatt

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So like I said, reading all the responses here I took the common sense approach and am driving it like an adult. So basically going through a range of speeds and boost levels. No redline runs, no launches. Nothing ctazy basically.

Now the real interesting question I will have coming up soon - I will be doing my 1st oil change at 1K.

I know I will use synthectic. From my former turbo experience, likely Pennzoil Platinum. But I also read about nano particle additives that have had some good feedback from articles I've read online. Do you guys think I should use any additives or just straight plain synthetic oil?
 

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So like I said, reading all the responses here I took the common sense approach and am driving it like an adult. So basically going through a range of speeds and boost levels. No redline runs, no launches. Nothing ctazy basically.

Now the real interesting question I will have coming up soon - I will be doing my 1st oil change at 1K.

I know I will use synthectic. From my former turbo experience, likely Pennzoil Platinum. But I also read about nano particle additives that have had some good feedback from articles I've read online. Do you guys think I should use any additives or just straight plain synthetic oil?
you already use synthetic....from the factory
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