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Tech Pack Lawsuit

Zombo

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I'm sure your brain works just as well as mine, but I will pretend this isn't a rhetorical question. Obviously there isn't heat being generated by the transmission if the car isn't moving. However, the engine, air conditioning and exhaust are all quite warm on a hot day. They are also close to the transmission. My assumption is that convection, radiation and conduction from those heat sources all play a part.

Bottom line is - I don't have to know the cause to be able to read the transmission temperature off the dash display and see that the transmission temperature is spiking quickly when it's hot and the car is running but not moving.
Thanks for the response. I agree those items mentioned will impact the trans temp. I don't recall what the limp mode temp is (somehow I recall 280F - I'm probably wrong). Would you happen to know?
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Can I ask what source is generating the heat which is raising the temperature of the trans in a traffic jam?
My guess is the proximity of the CATS & headers to the tranny. Traffic jam is a "pure heatsoak" situation
 

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Related side note, I've also read about GT owners getting limp mode on track due to overheated diff.
 

stanglife

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I'm sure your brain works just as well as mine, but I will pretend this isn't a rhetorical question. Obviously there isn't heat being generated by the transmission if the car isn't moving. However, the engine, air conditioning and exhaust are all quite warm on a hot day. They are also close to the transmission. My assumption is that convection, radiation and conduction from those heat sources all play a part.

Bottom line is - I don't have to know the cause to be able to read the transmission temperature off the dash display and see that the transmission temperature is spiking quickly when it's hot and the car is running but not moving.
My guess is the proximity of the CATS & headers to the tranny. Traffic jam is a "pure heatsoak" situation

But then wouldn't that be an issue for even track pack cars? No airflow and standing still puts them in the exact situation.
 

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@r1acer, remember when you posted your purchase of your tech pack and said, "no recaros and coolers but who cares"? And you wonder why you are being called out on stirring the pot. If you don't care that you bought a tech, why in the hell would you have started this thread? You purchased in Dec 17 and now you're upset that a 16 Tech car hits limp mode on the track? Give me a break. Troll! Called it.

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First post! The Super Moon drove me to go out and make the dumbest purchase of my life. I believe I got a somewhat decent deal though...16 CPO with 10k miles and the tech pack (no recaros and coolers but who cares) and a 8 year 75k Ford bumper to bumper prem care warranty. Already replaced the clutch spring and am now thinking about those P51s for spring. Has a clear bra a 1/4 way up the hood and front/rear fenders...the paint is in excellent shape.

Just curious how much you guys would have paid including the warranty?
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2082779#post2082779
 

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As a consumer I really don’t/didn’t give a shit. I was told by people at a Ford Dealer and people at Ford Performance a subsidiary that solutions were on the way...

This is the real damage done here IMO as they brought a lot of people into the brand that usually wouldn’t even look at them. And then they treated a lot of them like shit.
First paragraph - big mistake. When it comes to purchasing a high performance car that you chose because you intended to track it (even if only "potentially"), the onus is on you to be at least fairly well versed on it's capabilities as well as your own. Safety items (such as a helmet, etc) and consumables (tires, brakes, etc) should have crossed your mind at the very least as well. Trusting your dealer on the above (let alone the necessity of specific component cooling systems) would be a major mistake. This is where Ford Performance can help via suggestions to equip your Mustang for track use. They told you a solution was on the way and you weren't happy with the timeline. You didn't have to wait for them and hordes of Mustang enthusiasts haven't in the past.

As for treatment, most every one I know that purchased a GT350 that came from a different brand has been rather impressed with it's performance. Many of them modified their car to meet their respective needs. The ones I know that don't track them have had little to complain about, including going into limp mode on the street.:shrug: To date, they are pretty darn happy about the purchase.



You are purposely ignoring them point here.
Just the opposite. I'm trying to put the ball in your court. As I said, any car or truck can be taken to the track. Now what happens if the vehicle goes into limp mode (a protective strategy)? If you damage the vehicle and are honest about where it got damaged, the dealer may very well refer to warranty language as well as point out anything in dealer provided literature (manuals, etc) that stipulate limits or use. The GT350 is no different. You've already seen quoted text from the GT350 supplement regarding Tech Pack use and mention of needing to add appropriate cooling. It is fair to say that you didn't have the opportunity to read the manual before purchase but the fact that you didn't is no different on any other vehicle purchase.



I've yet to track mine but IMO overheating after a couple laps/hot day in traffic has nothing to do with track performance. It's simply unacceptable assuming this is a common occurrence. I have no clue if mine will overheat or not (until April) but that's besides the point.

From my point of view Ford should have made it clear that this would happen instead of simply "recommending" and not requiring coolers in their language.
You use the word "common" as if you have statistical data. You don't know the numbers and how they correlate to any other car for sale here in the United States. Were this beyond the norm you would likely have seen governmental intervention, especially if it was now a public safety issue.

That said, and as I mentioned before, Ford needs to dumb their ads down to cover just about any and all misunderstanding that could lead to the buying public being upset. Something like a typical medicine ad where the guy talks extremely fast and covers as much ground as possible.

The fact, and I have heard it from more than one person, that the GT350 Tech could overheat in traffic, and not just on the track, to me is a safety issue. Ford was cheap, and should have put the coolers on every car.
It isn't that they were "cheap" but rather they made a piss poor decision to try to market the car a number of different ways, all the while keeping the price down. Were I in the room when the decision to market it the way they did I would have spoken up and made sure that everyone knew that there was going to be a problem when people tried to track a car that didn't have the coolers that were deemed necessary for track use. Sadly, somebody in management with the authority to override a counter argument did just that - an absolutely horrible decision. All Ford had to do was to charge the additional monies and have a Tech Pack offering at an even higher price. Since they were unwilling to do that they now have the lawsuit. An absolutely idiotic decision that was based on a flawed assumption - that people would know that they bought a GT350 that couldn't really be tracked but that sure looked good with flashy stripes and a great sounding exhaust and be content. In essence, a paper cobra.

So basically what you are saying is that buyers should know all about racing, transmission temps, parts, among other things if you simply want to do a few track days. I wish you were on Ford's legal team with that type of logic.

More than a reach and a rather large leap in assumption - "basically." A few days on the track? Lol. It only takes minutes to take a street vehicle that doesn't have necessary cooling systems in place to revert to a protective strategy. This has been the norm since fuel injection and ECU's have existed and is nothing new. And that isn't legal logic but rather simple fact. Ford has nothing to prove in this regard as all OEM's use these strategies.

Lots of folks (young and old) are new to tracking and definitely new to mustangs because of how good this car is. I'm sure there are plenty of cars without coolers that can go more than 2-3 laps without overheating.

Sure there are. And each one is unique. In the case of the GT350, it reaches certain thermal thresholds at a specific point and when it does limp mode is activated. Because you don't want this happening at a track event, having requisite coolers in place is absolutely essential. If you chose comfy seats/nav over coolers but want to push the car to those thresholds on the track - you made a poor buying decision. Thankfully, one that can be corrected by adding the necessary cooling systems.

...do I understand the purpose of coolers? Yes. Did I think that based on the Ford Owner's manual that they were absolutely necessary? No.

In the case of the amount of heat a GT350 can generate within the transmission/differential along with the rate at which the programmed thresholds can be reached, you made an error of assumption. That said, and as I alluded to earlier, Ford needs to ensure that they are more realistic about buyer expectations. And to listen to engineers when they lay out potential fallout when certain exclusions are made.
I personally thought that the tech pack cars would have trouble...

I also thought that if an owner were trying to run an all day event there might be an issue.

I ALSO thought that a pro driver would tend to have more of an issue with heat than a novice like myself...

I didn't think that 5 minutes on a 55F day would be sufficient to trigger limp mode...

I thought I would be able to add cooling without voiding any warranties.

I thought it would be easier and cheaper to add cooling than to switch out seats.

I just assumed I would be very uncomfortable in the Recaros.

...the advertising from Ford tricked me into thinking the tech pack would be ok for my use.
See what you did there?

I have experienced limp mode on the street. I live in the high desert area in Southern California. Or at least I did. Having recently installed a track pack cooler and transmission I am amazed how much cooler the transmission stays under all conditions now. Although I only hit limp mode once, watching the temp via the Forscan hack showed it flirted with limp mode almost daily. I'm sure that's why Furd deleted the temp gauge from the tech packs. It is alarming how hot the trans ran under normal conditions.
Given that Ford does plenty of extreme weather testing, what you saw should not be happening on a typical Sunday drive. The fact that it happened to you and not to plenty of other GT350's under even more duress is rather interesting as well.

Ford was absolutely being sneaky and borderline unethical in my book by systematically deleting access to certain data on Teck Pack/Base GT350's. It is assumed (and I believe correctly) that Ford didn't want to be providing validation if/when limp mode occurred. I agree in this case that it is proof that the issue of temperatures being exceeded on these cars (which would cause a reduction in performance due to heat generated) as being recognized but ignored by those having the ultimate say in how this car was to be marketed.

I'm sure your brain works just as well as mine, but I will pretend this isn't a rhetorical question. Obviously there isn't heat being generated by the transmission if the car isn't moving. However, the engine, air conditioning and exhaust are all quite warm on a hot day. They are also close to the transmission. My assumption is that convection, radiation and conduction from those heat sources all play a part.
The car may not be moving but if the input shaft is spinning then heat is being generated. Pump equipped TR3160's are always pumping (when the input shaft rotates), pushing fluid which ultimately aids in reducing temperatures.

Convection, vis a vis nearby exhaust system componentry, is no different on this car than any other. Witness scoops used in this area and how they make little difference. Bottom line, this engine has the potential to rev very high and at a pretty quick rate. Heat is created internally in short order and has to be addressed - internally.
 

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So after experiencing limp mode on the highway 4 times last summer driving at highway speeds in 95f-100f temps ( usually when I drop a gear and punch it to pass someone) Ford has advised me that I should "avoid driving my car on hot days until I get coolers". Told them I would love to install coolers however I heard it will void my warranty/extended warranty. They are yet to reply. The message I get on my dash each time this occurs is "POWER REDUCED TO LOWER ENGINE TEMP". My rpms are reduced to 4500 in any gear.
 

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First paragraph - big mistake. When it comes to purchasing a high performance car that you chose because you intended to track it (even if only "potentially"), the onus is on you to be at least fairly well versed on it's capabilities as well as your own. Safety items (such as a helmet, etc) and consumables (tires, brakes, etc) should have crossed your mind at the very least as well. Trusting your dealer on the above (let alone the necessity of specific component cooling systems) would be a major mistake. This is where Ford Performance can help via suggestions to equip your Mustang for track use. They told you a solution was on the way and you weren't happy with the timeline. You didn't have to wait for them and hordes of Mustang enthusiasts haven't in the past.

As for treatment, most every one I know that purchased a GT350 that came from a different brand has been rather impressed with it's performance. Many of them modified their car to meet their respective needs. The ones I know that don't track them have had little to complain about, including going into limp mode on the street.:shrug: To date, they are pretty darn happy about the purchase.





Just the opposite. I'm trying to put the ball in your court. As I said, any car or truck can be taken to the track. Now what happens if the vehicle goes into limp mode (a protective strategy)? If you damage the vehicle and are honest about where it got damaged, the dealer may very well refer to warranty language as well as point out anything in dealer provided literature (manuals, etc) that stipulate limits or use. The GT350 is no different. You've already seen quoted text from the GT350 supplement regarding Tech Pack use and mention of needing to add appropriate cooling. It is fair to say that you didn't have the opportunity to read the manual before purchase but the fact that you didn't is no different on any other vehicle purchase.





You use the word "common" as if you have statistical data. You don't know the numbers and how they correlate to any other car for sale here in the United States. Were this beyond the norm you would likely have seen governmental intervention, especially if it was now a public safety issue.

That said, and as I mentioned before, Ford needs to dumb their ads down to cover just about any and all misunderstanding that could lead to the buying public being upset. Something like a typical medicine ad where the guy talks extremely fast and covers as much ground as possible.



It isn't that they were "cheap" but rather they made a piss poor decision to try to market the car a number of different ways, all the while keeping the price down. Were I in the room when the decision to market it the way they did I would have spoken up and made sure that everyone knew that there was going to be a problem when people tried to track a car that didn't have the coolers that were deemed necessary for track use. Sadly, somebody in management with the authority to override a counter argument did just that - an absolutely horrible decision. All Ford had to do was to charge the additional monies and have a Tech Pack offering at an even higher price. Since they were unwilling to do that they now have the lawsuit. An absolutely idiotic decision that was based on a flawed assumption - that people would know that they bought a GT350 that couldn't really be tracked but that sure looked good with flashy stripes and a great sounding exhaust and be content. In essence, a paper cobra.





See what you did there?



Given that Ford does plenty of extreme weather testing, what you saw should not be happening on a typical Sunday drive. The fact that it happened to you and not to plenty of other GT350's under even more duress is rather interesting as well.

Ford was absolutely being sneaky and borderline unethical in my book by systematically deleting access to certain data on Teck Pack/Base GT350's. It is assumed (and I believe correctly) that Ford didn't want to be providing validation if/when limp mode occurred. I agree in this case that it is proof that the issue of temperatures being exceeded on these cars (which would cause a reduction in performance due to heat generated) as being recognized but ignored by those having the ultimate say in how this car was to be marketed.



The car may not be moving but if the input shaft is spinning then heat is being generated. Pump equipped TR3160's are always pumping (when the input shaft rotates), pushing fluid which ultimately aids in reducing temperatures.

Convection, vis a vis nearby exhaust system componentry, is no different on this car than any other. Witness scoops used in this area and how they make little difference. Bottom line, this engine has the potential to rev very high and at a pretty quick rate. Heat is created internally in short order and has to be addressed - internally.
It's been said over and over. All that work for nothing. Nobody is changing anyone's mind here.
 

GT_Dave

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So after experiencing limp mode on the highway 4 times last summer driving at highway speeds in 95f-100f temps ( usually when I drop a gear and punch it to pass someone) Ford has advised me that I should "avoid driving my car on hot days until I get coolers". Told them I would love to install coolers however I heard it will void my warranty/extended warranty. They are yet to reply. The message I get on my dash each time this occurs is "POWER REDUCED TO LOWER ENGINE TEMP". My rpms are reduced to 4500 in any gear.
If you are getting that message, it has nothing to do with this thread for trans and diff cooler . . . YOU HAVE OTHER PROBLEMS WITH YOUR ENGINE.
YOUR ENGINE SHOULD NOT BE OVERHEATING UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.
 

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So after experiencing limp mode on the highway 4 times last summer driving at highway speeds in 95f-100f temps ( usually when I drop a gear and punch it to pass someone) Ford has advised me that I should "avoid driving my car on hot days until I get coolers". Told them I would love to install coolers however I heard it will void my warranty/extended warranty. They are yet to reply. The message I get on my dash each time this occurs is "POWER REDUCED TO LOWER ENGINE TEMP". My rpms are reduced to 4500 in any gear.
If a Track Pack owner purchases the Barcalounger seats and installs them in place of the Recaro's they won't be covered by the factory warranty. Same goes for replacing the lame 4" Track Pack audio system/bezel with that of the 8" navigation that was available in Tech Pack or R model cars - even if all factory parts are used.

I don't agree with this policy but at least Ford Corporate remains consistent here.

It's been said over and over. All that work for nothing. Nobody is changing anyone's mind here.
People make their own choices. Quite often, emotion overpowers honest and objective consideration and I have zero interest in swaying emotion. My interest lies in the technical aspect, one that I wish more would consider when trying to make an educated buying decision.
 

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smsgt350

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If you are getting that message, it has nothing to do with this thread for trans and diff cooler . . . YOU HAVE OTHER PROBLEMS WITH YOUR ENGINE.
YOUR ENGINE SHOULD NOT BE OVERHEATING UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.
Good to know. So what is the actual message when the transmission is overheating then?
 

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When you say Ford you mean the dealer? Strange response to say the least as all cars have radiators aka cooler :headbonk: you need to find another dealer.
 

smsgt350

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When you say Ford you mean the dealer? Strange response to say the least as all cars have radiators aka cooler :headbonk: you need to find another dealer.
Yes the dealer who told me it was the dreaded transmission limp mode. The first time it happened they drained and replaced the transmission fluid. Back to my question though, what is the display readout for transmission overheating? ( I dont have my owners manual nearby or I would be checking!)
 

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If you are getting that message, it has nothing to do with this thread for trans and diff cooler . . . YOU HAVE OTHER PROBLEMS WITH YOUR ENGINE.
YOUR ENGINE SHOULD NOT BE OVERHEATING UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.
Not so. When I experienced limp mode due to transmission overheating, I got the same message.
 

smsgt350

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Not so. When I experienced limp mode due to transmission overheating, I got the same message.
Well thank you for clarifying. Good to have a fellow tech owner on here who can relate!! I did in fact check my engine temps each time this has occurred and they were within a normal operating range. As you know the transmission temp display is not available on the tech car without programming it in using forscan so I have always assumed it is the transmission overheating.
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