Road and Track Article on the PP2 - It's not a track car

I was one of those GT350 tire kickers that was more than happy to pay $15k less and have a more than competent car on the track. Sure the 350 is special, but not that much so IMO.

For those who wanted a dedicated Mustang for the track, on the cheap.. don't opt for the GT350, or the PP2... they buy a base GT and use the Ford Performance Catalog and build a track car.


Obviously, if ford would allow MagneRide as stand alone option, You could build a GT350 equivalent pretty cheap. But Ford knows this.


For those who don't care about MR, then there is no reason to opt for PP1, or PP2 when you can build a PP3 much cheaper. Look at this upgrade you can do for only $4,800 on a base Mustang.

Plenty of money left over for a performance radiator, cooler, etc..



But the fact someone claims their GM car is "track ready" and only tracks their car a few times a year...? But gives up on DD features/comforts..?

Or, just buy a PP2 and add oil/diff coolers and be done with complaining. Yes more money, but so what... if a "track car" is what you want, nothing is stopping anyone adding the coolers.

martinjlm said:

You don’t put $500 track tires with limited street utility and tread life on an everyday driver and then say “we weren’t looking for full track capability”. You don’t buy an engagement ring, book a reception hall and then say “I was just hoping to Netflix and chill”.

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Indeed.

An extra $1200 is what it would take to bring the PP2 up to snuff.

A $200 Trans cooler...



https://www.americanmuscle.com/frpp-trans-cooler-scoop-1516.html

And a $1000 differential cooler...



http://fulltiltboogieracing.com/S550_diff_cooler_kit.html

Yes, it absolutely should have come with these....but $1200 in the grand scheme of things is a small price to pay when you look at the costs associated with HDPE sessions. The PP2 will likely lap much longer in cooler weather, as the shortcomings are exacerbated during summer temperatures.

millhouse said:

Indeed.

An extra $1200 is what it would take to bring the PP2 up to snuff.

A $200 Trans cooler...

https://www.americanmuscle.com/frpp-trans-cooler-scoop-1516.html

And a $1000 differential cooler...

http://fulltiltboogieracing.com/S550_diff_cooler_kit.html

Yes, it absolutely should have come with these....but $1200 in the grand scheme of things is a small price to pay when you look at the costs associated with HDPE sessions. The PP2 will likely lap much longer in cooler weather, as the shortcomings are exacerbated during summer temperatures.

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That's not a trans cooler. Spend much time on Track Mustangs Online and you'll find plenty who've tried that without success. The fact is that Ford screwed up. As much as I don't like deriding former colleagues, they did. I get why it wasn't on the PP1. It actually makes good sense. But the whole point of the PP2 is to be a real track pack on the GT. I could easily build my car into a more competent track car than the PP2 for less too. That's not the point and if you're still arguing it, you're missing it.

Oh and protecting the GT350 isn't a good argument either. If it can't stand on its own (and it does/would), then they need to up its ante as well. It seems they did that for 2019MY quite well.

w3rkn said:

For those who wanted a dedicated Mustang for the track, on the cheap.. don't opt for the GT350, or the PP2... they buy a base GT and use the Ford Performance Catalog and build a track car.


Obviously, if ford would allow MagneRide as stand alone option, You could build a GT350 equivalent pretty cheap. But Ford knows this.


For those who don't care about MR, then there is no reason to opt for PP1, or PP2 when you can build a PP3 much cheaper. Look at this upgrade you can do for only $4,800 on a base Mustang.

Plenty of money left over for a performance radiator, cooler, etc..



But the fact someone claims their GM car is "track ready" and only tracks their car a few times a year...? But gives up on DD features/comforts..?

Or, just buy a PP2 and add oil/diff coolers and be done with complaining. Yes more money, but so what... if a "track car" is what you want, nothing is stopping anyone adding the coolers.

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1LE is by no means short of creature comforts. It actually has more creature comforts than a base 1SS and just a bit shy of what’s in a 2SS. At $45k it includes 8” screen, 8-way power driver’s and 6-way power passenger’s seats in leather and Alcantera, reconfigurable display, automatic climate control, keyless with remote start. I think it might also include HUD, but I’m not totally certain of that.

Austinj427 said:

They probably should have given it coolers.

I am interested in how long it can lap though, my PP1 would give me warnings occasionally but I never actually overheated anything.

If it can run for a full 20 minute session in temps below 90, that will cover a significant portion of the HPDE crowd.

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If you run 50% of the car's capabilities maybe you won't have trouble. If you push the car anywhere near its limits the diff will get hot quickly - even in 60 degree weather. At least that's the case for a GT350 with no cooler on the rear diff. I realize the GT350 makes a fair bit more power, but I still think you will have issues.

It seems to me that Ford didn't want to design coolers for the MT-82 - or they found out that if they put a cooler on the rear diff as well as the MT-82 there was some other failure mode for the car. Could be the issue also had to do with finding cooling air without changing the front fascia of the PP2 car. The GT350 has the transmission cooler radiator in the front fascia, but I assume the GT is not set up for that.

When I first heard there were no coolers I was very surprised, but the more I consider how much effort it would be and the unique components needed to put coolers on the PP2, I think I get it now. Ford could have put the Tremec box from the GT350 into the PP2, but that is going pretty far to adapt the PP2 to track use. Ford probably didn't want to make a unique MT-82 transmission case just to add coolers for the PP2, either.

I don't think Ford was worried about the PP2 being the same as the GT350 as far as lap times go, there are just too many differences between the cars. After thinking about this more, I believe it was a simple case of economics.

JohnD said:

The problem is that the PP2 sells for more than a 1SS 1LE, due in no small part to the extraneous junk that Ford forces you to buy now when you order any PP package. Glad I got my base PP car when I did, there is absolutely no way I would buy a new Mustang given their policies now.

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I see if you want a PP2 car, you have to have 301A for $2K, which adds up to $8500 for PP2. That is complete horse shit. C'mon Ford, stop with this package crap, get back to building a Mustang the way people want it.

PP1 you can still get on a base car, but at $4K the price is a bit steep.

Ford is really screwing up since the management change.

Hack said:

If you run 50% of the car's capabilities maybe you won't have trouble. If you push the car anywhere near its limits the diff will get hot quickly - even in 60 degree weather. At least that's the case for a GT350 with no cooler on the rear diff. I realize the GT350 makes a fair bit more power, but I still think you will have issues.

It seems to me that Ford didn't want to design coolers for the MT-82 - or they found out that if they put a cooler on the rear diff as well as the MT-82 there was some other failure mode for the car. Could be the issue also had to do with finding cooling air without changing the front fascia of the PP2 car. The GT350 has the transmission cooler radiator in the front fascia, but I assume the GT is not set up for that.

When I first heard there were no coolers I was very surprised, but the more I consider how much effort it would be and the unique components needed to put coolers on the PP2, I think I get it now. Ford could have put the Tremec box from the GT350 into the PP2, but that is going pretty far to adapt the PP2 to track use. Ford probably didn't want to make a unique MT-82 transmission case just to add coolers for the PP2, either.

I don't think Ford was worried about the PP2 being the same as the GT350 as far as lap times go, there are just too many differences between the cars. After thinking about this more, I believe it was a simple case of economics.

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See the link I posted, FRPP designed and makes a trans cooler for the S550 MT82. The just decided not to include it on the PP2, likely because (as you stated) the diff is going to overheat before the transmission.

grabber yote said:

Moral of the story...buy a base GT and add your own aftermarket suspension, wheels and tires. You will spend less money and have a platform better suited for track duty.

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I think the costs would be higher than the $8,500.00

Maybe with some after-market cheap stuff.

w3rkn said:

For those who wanted a dedicated Mustang for the track, on the cheap.. don't opt for the GT350, or the PP2... they buy a base GT and use the Ford Performance Catalog and build a track car....Look at this upgrade you can do for only $4,800 on a base Mustang.

Plenty of money left over for a performance radiator, cooler, etc..
......
Or, just buy a PP2 and add oil/diff coolers and be done with complaining......if a "track car" is what you want, nothing is stopping anyone adding the coolers.

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Brakes are only one component of a PP1 or PP2 car, there are lots of other things, well beyond a radiator. Thousands and thousands of dollars of other stuff, some of which is not that easy to change.

But I support the idea of simply adding coolers to a PP2 car and being done with it.

That article excerpt didn't say anything we didn't already know. There was a video long ago (before PP2s were hitting the roads) where a Ford engineer/deep voice guy said the PP2 was not meant to be a track car, but an 'ultimate daily driver.' The GT350 is holding the GT back because there isn't enough of a gap between the two.

NoVaGT said:

et back to building a Mustang the way people want it.

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Buy a base GT, throw a little money at it and you'll be 1LE slaughtering in no time, and still come out way ahead money wise.

NoVaGT said:

Brakes are only one component of a PP1 or PP2 car, there are lots of other things, well beyond a radiator. Thousands and thousands of dollars of other stuff, some of which is not that easy to change.

But I support the idea of simply adding coolers to a PP2 car and being done with it.

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But, if you go the PP3 route (Ford Performance Catalog/aftermarket), ALL of your components are of better performance and suited for track use, than with stock PP2.

Did you click on my link..? (& scroll down..?) That is stuff you can upgrade from a PP2.



And you are correct, thousands of dollars of other stuff... In which you are still under, if you had purchased a base Mustang GT and went FP catalog, which is more focused and better suited for track use. Ford Performance/(Steeda?) suspension is the last upgrade option I didn't mention. But do tell us... how much does a full Mustang upgrade suspension cost...? (add it all up, you are still under a base PP2)


A PP3 (home brew track car) will still cost less and you end up with moAr. The only downfall, is that you can not add magneride as aftermarket. So you have to spend the $6k on PP2 and upgrade from there, just to get MR. Which is what people here are upset about.

I look through an actual hardcopy of the 2018 FP Catalog nearly everyday... as Ford Motor Company sells what it races & races what it sells. As does Steeda and others.

WildHorse said:

Buy a base GT, throw a little money at it and you'll be 1LE slaughtering in no time, and still come out way ahead money wise.

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Throw enough money at a Pinto and you can beat a 1le. One cannot buy a Base GT and beat a 1le for the $8500 (or less) that the PP2 costs. It's just too much money to bring it up to that performance level, too much work and too many parts.

Chevy has done great with the Camaro and it's pricing, and Ford has fucked everything up since new management came to Dearborn.

w3rkn said:

......A PP3 (home brew track car) will still cost less and you end up with moAr. ......

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Prove it.

Show it.

List it all. With pricing.

Make a PP3 that will be as good or better than a PP2, for $6500.00