Sponsored

2018 GT vs 2016 Camaro - Track Times Compared w/Video

jake_zx2

Banned
Banned
Banned
Joined
Jun 19, 2016
Threads
11
Messages
2,305
Reaction score
1,418
Location
Texas
Vehicle(s)
Kona Blue 2018 GT
Vehicle Showcase
1
I don't think so, that's what the car is made for. If you want something that will be kind on the streets, you buy a ZL1. If you want something that's going to be a street legal track monster, you buy a 1LE and won't drive it on the streets enough to notice how harsh it really is. It's the car's proper demographic. If that's not your style, then you're better suited for a standard ZL1 (or, in this case, GT500)
Sponsored

 

millhouse

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2016
Threads
18
Messages
2,652
Reaction score
1,216
Location
Simpsonville SC
Vehicle(s)
2016 Ruby Red GT PP
I don't think so, that's what the car is made for. If you want something that will be kind on the streets, you buy a ZL1. If you want something that's going to be a street legal track monster, you buy a 1LE and won't drive it on the streets enough to notice how harsh it really is. It's the car's proper demographic. If that's not your style, then you're better suited for a standard ZL1 (or, in this case, GT500)
The GT350R has enough street manners to make it a daily driver. Sacrificing overall drive-ability doesn't have to be the only option.
 

jake_zx2

Banned
Banned
Banned
Joined
Jun 19, 2016
Threads
11
Messages
2,305
Reaction score
1,418
Location
Texas
Vehicle(s)
Kona Blue 2018 GT
Vehicle Showcase
1
GT350R also runs lap times nowhere near those of the 1LE. You CAN have a track car that's gentle on the street, but ultimately, its going to be worse on the track. That's why they have both the street and track options. Hell, some would even consider the GT350R "rugged"
 

millhouse

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2016
Threads
18
Messages
2,652
Reaction score
1,216
Location
Simpsonville SC
Vehicle(s)
2016 Ruby Red GT PP
GT350R also runs lap times nowhere near those of the 1LE. You CAN have a track car that's gentle on the street, but ultimately, its going to be worse on the track. That's why they have both the street and track options. Hell, some would even consider the GT350R "rugged"
The GT350R is also down a shitload of horsepower and torque.

In the end, these are ultimately street cars. If ford wants to make a track car, make one like the cobrajet for the track only. Otherwise, people are going to start bitching once again that their GT500 is overheating at the track, and that the GT500R is unbearable for the street.
 

jake_zx2

Banned
Banned
Banned
Joined
Jun 19, 2016
Threads
11
Messages
2,305
Reaction score
1,418
Location
Texas
Vehicle(s)
Kona Blue 2018 GT
Vehicle Showcase
1
Well, with that logic, we might as well be saying who cares about lap times as long as it rides comfortable.

And at that point, I say "why not buy a taurus?"

Just my thought. Kind of pointless to buy an ultra-high performance car if you don't want ultra-high performance
 

Sponsored

jake_zx2

Banned
Banned
Banned
Joined
Jun 19, 2016
Threads
11
Messages
2,305
Reaction score
1,418
Location
Texas
Vehicle(s)
Kona Blue 2018 GT
Vehicle Showcase
1
And again, those people bitching are the dumbasses who bought their car for the wrong purpose. The people bitching about their GT500 overheating should be the people buying the GT500R, and the people bitching about the GT500R's ride should be the ones buying the GT500. People just get too caught up in the numbers and don't think about what they ACTUALLY want
 

4V Mayhem

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 20, 2016
Threads
9
Messages
1,368
Reaction score
528
Location
US
Vehicle(s)
2015 Mustang GT Premium M6
What? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Seriously dude, you need to brush up on your lap time information.
No. I don't.


Man, with 124 horsepower and 221 lb-ft of torque more, I should hope it would. It really kicked the GT350R’s ass by running 0.4 seconds quicker around the track didn’t it?
Winning is winning. Different cars approach track duty in different ways. Ford threw everything into the handling and not enough into the hp/tq to beat the competition. Chevy gave it monster hp, killer tq, and maybe the handling wasn't as good as the R, but definitely good enough to beat the better handling car. And 0.4 seconds is a lot to lose by.


The ZL1 1LE is an all-out track car, plain and simple. It’s completely worthless for driving on public roads. Hell, there are idiots that are currently trying to figure out how to make their ZL1 1LE’s livable so they can actually drive them on the roads.

The GT500 is not going to try to compete with an all-out track car plain and simple.
It is a track car. Calling it worthless on public roads is a bit of a stretch especially when plenty of people are using them daily. You can throw excuse after excuse out there but the GT500 WILL be compared to the ZL1 AND the ZL1 1LE whether you like it or think it's fair or not.

These cars are in competition. That much is evident by your protests. In competition you can't skate off by simply claiming that this car isn't comparable to this car or this car is a track car and this one isn't. You either compete or you don't. Based on the comments I have seen Ford has made nothing to compete with the SS 1LE, the ZL1, or the ZL1 1LE. So then don't compare them. Or don't get all excited when they do get compared and the outcome you desire is not realized. If it isn't a fair comparison then you should have nothing to be getting this steamed about. If it is a fair comparison, like the majority of people think it is, then Ford needs to step it up a bit. They already are with the PP2 and the GT500 so we'll see what happens. Until then, cool your jets man.
 

millhouse

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2016
Threads
18
Messages
2,652
Reaction score
1,216
Location
Simpsonville SC
Vehicle(s)
2016 Ruby Red GT PP
No. I don't.

Actually, you do. Your comments was ridiculously off.



Winning is winning. Different cars approach track duty in different ways. Ford threw everything into the handling and not enough into the hp/tq to beat the competition. Chevy gave it monster hp, killer tq, and maybe the handling wasn't as good as the R, but definitely good enough to beat the better handling car. And 0.4 seconds is a lot to lose by.

With he power and torque defecit the GT350R had, 0.4 seconds is peanuts to lose by.


It is a track car. Calling it worthless on public roads is a bit of a stretch especially when plenty of people are using them daily. You can throw excuse after excuse out there but the GT500 WILL be compared to the ZL1 AND the ZL1 1LE whether you like it or think it's fair or not.

It's not just me calling it worthless, it's every magazine review...so it's no stretch, it's what it is.

The GT500 may be compared to both, but only if/when it beats the ZL1. If they also end up offering an R only then will it truly be compared as a potential equal to the 1LE. Otherwise, the GT500 will remain a street car and the 1LE will be a track car.

These cars are in competition. That much is evident by your protests. In competition you can't skate off by simply claiming that this car isn't comparable to this car or this car is a track car and this one isn't. You either compete or you don't.

It's not about competing, it's about the intent. The pp1 was never meant to be a track terror. You can compare it to the 1le all you wan't, but that doesn't mean the PP1 is suddenly inferior. It wasn't designed with the same intent. The same goes for many of the other absurd comparisons...like matching the 350R against the ZL1 simply because it's the latest both have to offer. Compare all you want, but lets not pretend those are rival cars by any stretch of the imagination.


Based on the comments I have seen Ford has made nothing to compete with the SS 1LE, the ZL1, or the ZL1 1LE. So then don't compare them. Or don't get all excited when they do get compared and the outcome you desire is not realized. If it isn't a fair comparison then you should have nothing to be getting this steamed about. If it is a fair comparison, like the majority of people think it is, then Ford needs to step it up a bit. They already are with the PP2 and the GT500 so we'll see what happens. Until then, cool your jets man.
Does the new GTPP2 not match up spec wise with the SS 1LE? It's obvious that it's Fords attempt at a 1LE matchup. The ZL1 was gm's response to the previous GT500, so it's natural to assume the new GT500 will attempt to tackle the ZL1.

Response in red.
 

4V Mayhem

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 20, 2016
Threads
9
Messages
1,368
Reaction score
528
Location
US
Vehicle(s)
2015 Mustang GT Premium M6
I don't do the replies in red thing. So I put your replies in quote for you.

Actually, you do. Your comments was ridiculously off.
My response wasn't off. You just don't (want to) agree with it. I could just as easily make the same statement to you because I don't agree with what you're saying.

With he power and torque defecit the GT350R had, 0.4 seconds is peanuts to lose by.
Power has nothing to do with it. Losing by a lot is losing by a lot whether it's an EB Mustang losing by 0.4 to a Gallardo or (in this case) a GT350R losing to a ZL1. Like I said before, Ford seems to have compromised in the engine output but put more into the suspension and CF wheels. GM compromised more in the suspension but gave it more engine output. In the end the hp/tq of the ZL1 helped it overcome any deficit from the suspension and then some. The handling and high RPMs of the GT350R were not enough to overcome the brute strength of the ZL1. They both attacked the problem in different ways and Ford lost out. "You can lose by an inch or a mile".

It's not just me calling it worthless, it's every magazine review...so it's no stretch, it's what it is.

The GT500 may be compared to both, but only if/when it beats the ZL1. If they also end up offering an R only then will it truly be compared as a potential equal to the 1LE. Otherwise, the GT500 will remain a street car and the 1LE will be a track car.
That is up to the driver to decide. And there are plenty of people who DD that car whether you agree with MT or not. The mags also made harsh comments about the driveability and everyday characteristics of the 13-14 GT500. Yet I never saw one person make those complaints. Is the mag the end all say all? Because if so, then I don't think you have a leg to stand on when arguing the performance of the Mustang and the Camaro.

By the time the GT500 comes out Ford will have had plenty of time to beat the ZL1. They sure had better beat the ZL1...for your sake. Because you don't seem like the kind of person who likes the taste of words.

It's not about competing, it's about the intent. The pp1 was never meant to be a track terror. You can compare it to the 1le all you wan't, but that doesn't mean the PP1 is suddenly inferior. It wasn't designed with the same intent. The same goes for many of the other absurd comparisons...like matching the 350R against the ZL1 simply because it's the latest both have to offer. Compare all you want, but lets not pretend those are rival cars by any stretch of the imagination.
None of that matters when both cars are being compared according to how they perform. In the real world your argument may have some merit. But on a thread debating the performance of these two vehicles you can't go running around talking about the intent and purpose of the car. We are discussing how they stack up in comparison to one another. Kinda like if someone in the VS sub-forum asked if their GT could beat a turbo Altime. Regardless of the intent of the Altima, in that particular discussion, the performance is the only thing that matters.

Does the new GTPP2 not match up spec wise with the SS 1LE? It's obvious that it's Fords attempt at a 1LE matchup. The ZL1 was gm's response to the previous GT500, so it's natural to assume the new GT500 will attempt to tackle the ZL1.
And we have yet to see how either of those Mustangs will perform. They have a road ahead of them considering how awesome and impressive their respective competition is. And they both have had plenty of time in development to be able to beat the competition. We'll see.
 

Baron95

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2014
Threads
3
Messages
262
Reaction score
73
Location
CT
Vehicle(s)
2012 Mustang GT
Hmm, show me a 4-seater corvette….or did you forget that you can get the GT350R with the rear seat option?
No, you can't. It is a Ford Performance (aka aftermarket) part. It is no different than putting a Ford Performance cooler on the PP2 or a MOPAR lift on a Jeep.

You just have to accept reality. Ford just does not know how to do performance/handling as well as GM.

I'll put good money that the Corvette ZR1 will beat the Ford GT on track for 1/4th the price. It is that dramatic.
 

Sponsored

jake_zx2

Banned
Banned
Banned
Joined
Jun 19, 2016
Threads
11
Messages
2,305
Reaction score
1,418
Location
Texas
Vehicle(s)
Kona Blue 2018 GT
Vehicle Showcase
1
No, you can't. It is a Ford Performance (aka aftermarket) part. It is no different than putting a Ford Performance cooler on the PP2 or a MOPAR lift on a Jeep.
Doesn't matter, you're still comparing a sedan to a sports car, which is nonsensical
You just have to accept reality. Ford just does not know how to do performance/handling as well as GM.
Ahhhhh, negative big fella
I'll put good money that the Corvette ZR1 will beat the Ford GT on track for 1/4th the price. It is that dramatic.
doubt it, I doubt the ZR1 will really be significantly faster than the Z06, meanwhile, the Ford GT just set car and driver's fastest EVER lap at VIR (Yes, faster than the Porsche 918
in red
 

jake_zx2

Banned
Banned
Banned
Joined
Jun 19, 2016
Threads
11
Messages
2,305
Reaction score
1,418
Location
Texas
Vehicle(s)
Kona Blue 2018 GT
Vehicle Showcase
1
Oh a side note Baron, I REALLY don't understand why you're still lurking around... the gig is up, we all know you're a Camaro6 guy putting on a facade of "Potentially being interested in a PP2". At this point, even if you were telling the truth, I'm sure most mustang guys on here have no issue whatsoever drawing you away from the mustang. we don't need people like you in our community
 

4V Mayhem

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 20, 2016
Threads
9
Messages
1,368
Reaction score
528
Location
US
Vehicle(s)
2015 Mustang GT Premium M6
I'll put good money that the Corvette ZR1 will beat the Ford GT on track for 1/4th the price. It is that dramatic.
I wouldn't make that bet if I were you. I agree with a lot of things you say and you seem like a really smart dude. But the ZR1 beating the Ford GT? Nah man. I think it's just a matter of how bad or good the ZR1 loses. Or how well it keeps up.
Oh a side note Baron, I REALLY don't understand why you're still lurking around... the gig is up, we all know you're a Camaro6 guy putting on a facade of "Potentially being interested in a PP2". At this point, even if you were telling the truth, I'm sure most mustang guys on here have no issue whatsoever drawing you away from the mustang. we don't need people like you in our community
No offense and I'm not trying to bang heads with you but come on man. that was a bit harsh and unnecessary.
 

millhouse

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2016
Threads
18
Messages
2,652
Reaction score
1,216
Location
Simpsonville SC
Vehicle(s)
2016 Ruby Red GT PP
Power has nothing to do with it. Losing by a lot is losing by a lot whether it's an EB Mustang losing by 0.4 to a Gallardo or (in this case) a GT350R losing to a ZL1.
Funny, even the people testing these two cars didn't think 0.4 seconds was losing by "a lot".

"The first takeaway is that despite being way down on power and torque, the Shelby was only 0.39 second slower around Big Willow than the ZL1. That’s impressive but not surprising."

"Even a cursory glance at the speed trace (above) should leave you wondering, How the heck does the GT350R wind up only 70 feet behind the ZL1 at the checkered flag?”

Had this been the 1LE vs the GT350...you and every other camaro fanboy would consider this a ties...and say the 1LE is the GT350's equal. Hell, you say that now even though the two have never been tested together.

That is up to the driver to decide. And there are plenty of people who DD that car whether you agree with MT or not. The mags also made harsh comments about the driveability and everyday characteristics of the 13-14 GT500. Yet I never saw one person make those complaints. Is the mag the end all say all? Because if so, then I don't think you have a leg to stand on when arguing the performance of the Mustang and the Camaro.
The reviews say otherwise.

In regards to the GT500’s drieability…
“Not surprising, over the few seams and road irregularities we did encounter, the softer setting seemed to absorb the imperfections, while sport relayed every nook and cranny. It doesn’t rattle your teeth but it feels noticeably firmer. “

“Even with all this newfound power, the 2013 GT500 is more livable and user friendly than it ever was before. “

The only complaint about the GT500 was that it had a solid rear axle which made it less complaint over bumpy roads than an IRS equipped vehicle.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford/shelby-gt500/2013/2013-ford-shelby-gt500-first-test/

The Zl11LE

“I know Jonny loves this car, but I just can’t warm to it. Probably because I’ve lost all my fillings, and my kidneys are bruised. With the exception of the best roads, the ride in this Camaro is punishing. I’ve encountered smoother paint mixers. I had to remind myself that based on the numbers, this car is fantastic. Endless grip, fade-free brakes, abundant horsepower. But the thing is, I didn’t care. The bouncing was so bad that I found myself reacting to that instead of focusing on sheer act of driving. The Camaro might be brilliant on the track, but I wouldn’t want to drive this to get there.”

http://www.motortrend.com/news/chevrolet-camaro-zl1-1le-4th-place-2017-best-drivers-car/

And the thing is, these guys typically LOVE raw cars….so for them to say the drivability is as bad as it is truly is saying something.

“This car needs five-point harnesses because the dampers are so unforgiving. It’s true this 1LE has incredible grip; however, the compression damping is way too harsh while the rebound damping is just right. I’m not sure where they tuned this, but it clearly did not have a lot of bumps and jumps.”

By the time the GT500 comes out Ford will have had plenty of time to beat the ZL1. They sure had better beat the ZL1...for your sake. Because you don't seem like the kind of person who likes the taste of words.
I won’t ever own either, so the results I could care less about. At least we will finally be comparing cars on more level playing field (FI vs FI instead of FI vs NA).

None of that matters when both cars are being compared according to how they perform. In the real world your argument may have some merit. But on a thread debating the performance of these two vehicles you can't go running around talking about the intent and purpose of the car. We are discussing how they stack up in comparison to one another. Kinda like if someone in the VS sub-forum asked if their GT could beat a turbo Altime. Regardless of the intent of the Altima, in that particular discussion, the performance is the only thing that matters.
Discussion about it is fine, but pretending that the outcome somehow diminishes the value or places an “win” for one vehicle over the other is flat out dumb. Kind of like matching the PP1 against the 1LE when the PP2 was going to be out 2 months later….a car that was actually meant to compete.
 

jake_zx2

Banned
Banned
Banned
Joined
Jun 19, 2016
Threads
11
Messages
2,305
Reaction score
1,418
Location
Texas
Vehicle(s)
Kona Blue 2018 GT
Vehicle Showcase
1
I mean, a bit harsh? Maybe. Unnecessary? I don't think so. The only time I ever see this guy is when he's in a thread trying to convince people about how much better Camaros are than Mustangs and how GM has superior engineers to Ford. He's not needed here
Sponsored

 
 




Top