Steeda's New Dual Rate Ultimate Handling Springs - (Track Proven Winner!!!)

TennTex said:

Chris,
We're running the 3.1 at MSR next weekend. I hear you on TWS :( , need to get to MSR-Houston for some more variety!

Mike,
I don't know about Steeda days, when/where will they be? (I'm guessing over in your neck of the woods - I was in Columbus, GA, 2014~2016, but was too busy to do much care stuff then. Managed to hit Barber once...) Also curious to hear about the control arms!

Thanks,
Steve

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Steve and Chris, I will keep you posted on our schedule next year and the Steeda events as well. New front control arm update coming soon.

The best,

Mike D

Just wanted to say that I installed these springs with the steeda adjustables and I'm just...in love. It's so good. I hate myself for not doing it earlier.

Barrel said:

Just wanted to say that I installed these springs with the steeda adjustables and I'm just...in love. It's so good. I hate myself for not doing it earlier.

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We try to spread the good word ... but in the end, its a review like this that ultimately seals the deal :hail:

We appreciate the support!

TJ

Hi All,

I suspect that the Steeda dual rate springs are more stiff than I want; but, based on this thread I wonder if they might be more livable for a daily driver than I had thought. So, I am looking for some kind of performance "calibration".

W.r.t. the balance between road course performance and harshness etc. for street driving, I am wondering how the dual rate springs paired with the Pro Action Adjustable shocks and struts (or, paired with the FP Track shocks and struts) compare as follows:

GT with dual rate springs compared to ...
- GT with BMR handling springs paired and the FP Track shocks and struts
- Camero SS 1LE
- BMW M4

Ecoboost with dual rate springs compared to ...
- Camero V6 1LE
- BMW M2

If there are other comparisons that are relevant, please let me know.

FYI, I daily drive my car, and track it at the Atlantic Motorsports Park (short technical track, with elevation changes and some rough patches).

Many thanks for any thoughts about such a comparison!

As long as you don't go changing all your bushings to bearings or delrin/poly bushings, your car will just be very firm and otherwise remain nicely refined - although you're 200 lbs. lighter with an EB and, personally, I wouldn't go this stiff on an EB that I daily. My GT reminds me of the M3 I had (by a corporate mistake) when I lived in Germany - very tight but doesn't absorb every single possible bump like a Cadillac like the stock suspension. You should expect harsh bumps to travel through the suspension to the frame to you more, but... that'll happen with stiffer springs in any car. I track my car at AMP all the time with these springs and I drive the car on the street and it's surprisingly compliant (although, I've gone to bearings and harder bushings so some impact gets through the suspension to the frame to me).

I feel like EB's would be better off getting Steeda coilovers so you can tailor the springs to the car and manage ride height better given your weight balance.

I will be at AMP this Saturday with JZilla, actually - although not running, just loitering.

BTW, I run my car on 1 turn on the Pro-Action shocks on the street - that works well for my fat @$$ car.

[MENTION=21494]wildcatgoal[/MENTION]. Thanks for overview; very helpful! By the way my AMP is in Atlantic Canada:

http://www.atlanticmotorsportpark.com

I presume your AMP is in Georgia; I definitely can't be there this weekend!

Thanks again.

J.P.B. said:

[MENTION=21494]wildcatgoal[/MENTION]. Thanks for overview; very helpful! By the way my AMP is in Atlantic Canada:

http://www.atlanticmotorsportpark.com

I presume your AMP is in Georgia; I definitely can't be there this weekend!

Thanks again.

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Then you have STOLEN the abbreviation for MY favorite track! :lol:

These are a touch too stiff for a lightweight daily driver I think. I don't think I'd want to live with them every single day forever but I just did my 50 mile round trip commute all last week and on some not great city roads - it was certainly livable.

I paired these with the adjustable pro actions and the combo - for performance - is outstanding. I also think the harshness isn't really bad at all. But you'll feel a good bump at speed for sure.

Barrel said:

These are a touch too stiff for a lightweight daily driver I think. I don't think I'd want to live with them every single day forever but I just did my 50 mile round trip commute all last week and on some not great city roads - it was certainly livable.

I paired these with the adjustable pro actions and the combo - for performance - is outstanding. I also think the harshness isn't really bad at all. But you'll feel a good bump at speed for sure.

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Here in GA and FL where the roads are in good condition the ride quality is awesome!! The Steeda Dual rate design, does make a huge difference in ride quality in a higher rate spring. Plus, the even drop is perfect, not to compromise suspension geometry and weight transfer to the front.
Coupled up with our new front control arms with the extended ball joint to improve the front roll center makes an awesome package!

Steeda Tech

JPB,

Sorry to be late to reply to you question about living with the dual rate springs in a daily driver.

The last 2 months, I've had to do my 50 mi/day commute in my '17 GT-PP with the Steeda dual-rates and adjustables. My '11 F150 died - long story - so driving what is supposed to be my track-only toy on the street every day.

As others have said, it is not bad, but I know I'm driving a track car on the street. We have not-so-smooth concrete roads here, so you definitely feel the "thumpa-thumpa" in every joint in the road.

The only comparison I can give you is that I drove my prior Shelby GT which had the FRPP shocks and springs on it. I would say those were not quite as harsh as these, but for the average driver both would likely be considered harsh. Since you track your car, I doubt you would mind it much at all.

Good luck - and nice to learn there is another AMP!

TennTex said:

The only comparison I can give you is that I drove my prior Shelby GT which had the FRPP shocks and springs on it. I would say those were not quite as harsh as these, but for the average driver both would likely be considered harsh.

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Mostly out of curiosity, how much of the 'soft' rate remains with the car just sitting still? IOW, are there visible/measurable gaps between the more closely-wound coils with the car sitting at static ride heights, or does static car weight already put you into the 'firm rate' regions?


As a side note, I found even Ford's 2008 'regular GT' shocks to be a bit on the harsh side. At least I assume 'regular GT dampers' are what I got even though the car was slightly out of spec in at least one chassis respect.


Norm

Norm,

Just wanted to acknowledge that I've read a lot of your posts on the S197 Handling Section on Mustang Forums - thanks for the info over the years...

Norm Peterson said:

Mostly out of curiosity, how much of the 'soft' rate remains with the car just sitting still? IOW, are there visible/measurable gaps between the more closely-wound coils with the car sitting at static ride heights, or does static car weight already put you into the 'firm rate' regions?
Norm

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Interesting question, I'm always so used to looking at the springs when the car is raised with a wheel off. So, I went and looked with it sitting the garage. I've pasted a reference picture of the springs from the Steeda website, so you can put my comments in context...

(Counting from the bottom, as shown in the pix)

Front: 1 - 2 have a gap; small gap between 2 - 3; 3-4-5 all touching

Rear: 1-2-3-4 all have a gap; small gap to 5; 5-6-7-8 all touching (rubber noise reduction wrap around 5-6-7)

I've read a lot of discussion around the different spring types, and how these dual-rates actually do their job, but with so many coils touching, this implies to me that the unloading of the coil has a lot to do with its performance on track.

Norm Peterson said:

As a side note, I found even Ford's 2008 'regular GT' shocks to be a bit on the harsh side. At least I assume 'regular GT dampers' are what I got even though the car was slightly out of spec in at least one chassis respect.
Norm

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I never drove an '05~'08 with standard GT springs. The reason I bought the Shelby GT is that it was basically a Mustang GT with all the Ford Track Packs already on the car. However, as I got faster, and wanted to put in a roll-hoop, etc., I decided I needed a "plain-Jane" Mustang GT to cut into, and not damage any inherent value a Shelby car has. Plus, I wanted the IRS of the new car, and glad Ford went that direction as a road-course guy.

:ford:

Merry Christmas!

TennTex said:

Interesting question, I'm always so used to looking at the springs when the car is raised with a wheel off. So, I went and looked with it sitting the garage. I've pasted a reference picture of the springs from the Steeda website, so you can put my comments in context...

(Counting from the bottom, as shown in the pix)

Front: 1 - 2 have a gap; small gap between 2 - 3; 3-4-5 all touching

Rear: 1-2-3-4 all have a gap; small gap to 5; 5-6-7-8 all touching (rubber noise reduction wrap around 5-6-7)

I've read a lot of discussion around the different spring types, and how these dual-rates actually do their job, but with so many coils touching, this implies to me that the unloading of the coil has a lot to do with its performance on track.

Click to expand...

Many thanks for this information.

I'm sure there's at least a couple of things going on once the springs on the inside suspensions go past the point in rebound where the coils that are bottomed against each other at static ride height start opening up. Guessing that the rate of load transfer slows down slightly and that the amount of roll increases a little (and the sprung mass CG height moves up by some small amount as a consequence of the inside lifting up more against the soft rate than the outside is compressing against the firm rate). Could be reason to set slightly different static cambers than you would with springs that remained linear over the entire range of travel that you'd be using.


I remember seeing a Shelby GT in the showroom (and a HG Bullitt as well). But I'd already planned on the FRPP tune (which was possibly the same tune that went into the Bullitt) and more extensive changes in the wheels/tires/suspension than was on either. Was hoping for two sets of GT500 wheels & tires, but couldn't get the dealership to find a way to get my car to come through with that setup.


Merry Christmas right back


Norm

There is a little miss information in this thread. Tomorrow, I will post engineering and technical data on Dual rate springs in general. Also, Hyperco has great info regarding this design on their Website.

Merry Christmas everyone!

Steeda Tech

Steeda Dual Rate Technical up date

Dual rate springs. These are easy to spot because, as the image shows, they have tightly spaced coils at one end and wider, equally spaced coils at the other end. Usually, the spring rates for dual rate springs are listed as 250/425lb/in, meaning the top part is 250lb/in. and the bottom is 425lb/in. The middle part of the spring is the rate-transition-change area, which is designed to be where the car sits normally. This transition point is fine-tuned with Steeda Dual Rate Springs for the ultimate performance in your vehicle. The biggest advantage with dual rate springs is the unmatched handling performance as a result of increased roll control and reduced nosedive. When you are cornering, the part of the car on the outside of the curve rolls over the edge, while the inside edge rolls or lifts up. As the car rolls over, it moves into the higher spring rate, which greatly reduces roll. On the other side, the car lifts less because it's pushed up by the lighter spring rate. In combination with a sway bar, the car's roll will be almost imperceptible. Dual rate springs tend to be used in luxury, performance grand tourers and other high-performance vehicles. With that being said,these springs require more involved engineering and manufacturing process that requires more time which, leads to higher costs than either linear or progressive springs.

The Dual Rate Spring combines a relatively low initial spring rate, designed to absorb minor undulations and increase grip with a precise transition point and transition range to a secondary higher spring rate to improve roll control during cornering.