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sebounet

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On a hot day you might notice a difference between 87 and 91. When it's below 60 degrees you won't.
Right...
 

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Of course timing has something to do with it. However, higher compression engines need to back off the timing more when running low octane fuel to prevent detonation. The Mustang is tuned from Ford using premium fuel. This is why all HP ratings have a note mentioning the fuel used. When you use 87, especially in the 2018 GT, the ECU backs off timing to compensate. This will in turn reduce power.
In some cars, there is no ecu logic to advance timing for the increased octane. In those cases, running premium does nothing. The Mustang is not one of those cars. I have had these discussions many times after working in the petrochemical industry. Running 87 won't hurt the Mustang. However, you should expect power loss across the board. Personally, I run 93, but not just for the optimal power. There are other benefits, like increased detergency and friction modifiers, that you get with the premium top tier fuels (Shell, ExMo, BP).
The post I had shows the minimum power gains to be had on 93 vs 87 octane. There is some power to be had, but it is quite smal.

As for detergents in 93 vs 87 octane....they have the same amount of detergents. 93 octane isn’t inherently any cleaner than 87 octane nor does it have any better properties. There are no more friction modifiers period.

Top tier fuel is top tier weather it’s 87 or 93.
 

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The post I had shows the minimum power gains to be had on 93 vs 87 octane. There is some power to be had, but it is quite smal.

As for detergents in 93 vs 87 octane....they have the same amount of detergents. 93 octane isn’t inherently any cleaner than 87 octane nor does it have any better properties. There are no more friction modifiers period.

Top tier fuel is top tier weather it’s 87 or 93.
Does your post cover the new DIG setup?

I assisted in development of the detergents in your gas. I assure you, the detergency (and friction modifiers) are there at a much higher level in premium. Our testing shows it can make a difference, especially if you don't run it all the time.
 

millhouse

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Does your post cover the new DIG setup?

I assisted in development of the detergents in your gas. I assure you, the detergency (and friction modifiers) are there at a much higher level in premium. Our testing shows it can make a difference, especially if you don't run it all the time.
Curious, do you have any data supporting stations that run top tier fuel have more additives in their 93 than their 87?
 

bootlegger

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Curious, do you have any data supporting stations that run top tier fuel have more additives in their 93 than their 87?
The gas stations don't additize. It's done at the terminal. I can't share data showing the exact PPM of detergents used, as that is proprietary. However, Shell themselves even advertise this (as do companies like Marathon).

"All Shell gasoline meet this important standard to help keep your engine clean, but Shell V-Power premium gasoline goes further. It has five times the minimum detergency level required by government standards, so it can prevent and remove carbon deposits from intake valves and fuel injectors. Similar to an athlete with clear lungs, an engine free of deposits can breathe better."

I believe Shell used to use 2x LAC for the 87. They advertise 5x LAC for the 93 V-Power. This is just the detergency side of things. Many companies also add friction modifiers that reduce pump and injector wear.
 

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The gas stations don't additize. It's done at the terminal. I can't share data showing the exact PPM of detergents used, as that is proprietary. However, Shell themselves even advertise this (as do companies like Marathon).

"All Shell gasoline meet this important standard to help keep your engine clean, but Shell V-Power premium gasoline goes further. It has five times the minimum detergency level required by government standards, so it can prevent and remove carbon deposits from intake valves and fuel injectors. Similar to an athlete with clear lungs, an engine free of deposits can breathe better."

I believe Shell used to use 2x LAC for the 87. They advertise 5x LAC for the 93 V-Power. This is just the detergency side of things. Many companies also add friction modifiers that reduce pump and injector wear.
You're a good salesman. You make me wonder how my '99 F250 and '03 Explorer have managed to get a 1/4 million miles each on 87. Surely that crappy 87 octane fuel would gum them up completely in that many miles!
 

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The gas stations don't additize. It's done at the terminal. I can't share data showing the exact PPM of detergents used, as that is proprietary. However, Shell themselves even advertise this (as do companies like Marathon).

"All Shell gasoline meet this important standard to help keep your engine clean, but Shell V-Power premium gasoline goes further. It has five times the minimum detergency level required by government standards, so it can prevent and remove carbon deposits from intake valves and fuel injectors. Similar to an athlete with clear lungs, an engine free of deposits can breathe better."

I believe Shell used to use 2x LAC for the 87. They advertise 5x LAC for the 93 V-Power. This is just the detergency side of things. Many companies also add friction modifiers that reduce pump and injector wear.
From looking at the AAA publication (especially the dyno), I'm not seeing the downsides of running top tier 91+ unless you plan to leave your car 100% stock and only drive in city traffic. :cheers:
 

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millhouse

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The gas stations don't additize. It's done at the terminal. I can't share data showing the exact PPM of detergents used, as that is proprietary. However, Shell themselves even advertise this (as do companies like Marathon).

"All Shell gasoline meet this important standard to help keep your engine clean, but Shell V-Power premium gasoline goes further. It has five times the minimum detergency level required by government standards, so it can prevent and remove carbon deposits from intake valves and fuel injectors. Similar to an athlete with clear lungs, an engine free of deposits can breathe better."

I believe Shell used to use 2x LAC for the 87. They advertise 5x LAC for the 93 V-Power. This is just the detergency side of things. Many companies also add friction modifiers that reduce pump and injector wear.
What about Costco? QT? What about any of the other 100 top tier stations?

Also, where is the information that anything on top of the minimum Top Tier requirements does anything for your engine longevity?

You can't make claims that 93 somehow contains more additives and friction modifier without backing it up with something other than hearsay.
 

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You're a good salesman. You make me wonder how my '99 F250 and '03 Explorer have managed to get a 1/4 million miles each on 87. Surely that crappy 87 octane fuel would gum them up completely in that many miles!
Well that's easy. The word you are looking for is called "maintenance."

Maintenance: Language of origin, Old French. Noun. Definition: the process of maintaining or preserving someone or something, or the state of being maintained.

There's nothing inherently wrong with 87. How would gas with less detergents make your engine blow up sooner? Use a little logic here man.
 

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Curious, do you have any data supporting stations that run top tier fuel have more additives in their 93 than their 87?
Just go to Shell website their 87 vs 91 V-power.. it's all there for the world to see. As for our local Husky, their 91/92/94 far far far exceeds the Canadian General Standards Board for tier 1 automotive fuels.
 

bootlegger

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What about Costco? QT? What about any of the other 100 top tier stations?

Also, where is the information that anything on top of the minimum Top Tier requirements does anything for your engine longevity?

You can't make claims that 93 somehow contains more additives and friction modifier without backing it up with something other than hearsay.
The data is on the websites for the companies that sell them. The results are proven via ASTM standard testing. http://www.shell.us/motorist/shell-fuels/shell-v-power-nitro-plus-premium-gasoline.html

As said before, the fuel suppliers even state there is more detergent. It isn't heresay. They can't legally make the claim without proof. I am not legally allowed to discuss what my old customers did.
 

bootlegger

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You're a good salesman. You make me wonder how my '99 F250 and '03 Explorer have managed to get a 1/4 million miles each on 87. Surely that crappy 87 octane fuel would gum them up completely in that many miles!
I had over 3 years devoted to development and testing. I spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to see if the detergents and other additives provided benefits. I believe in the technology and the companies using it. 87 top tier is just fine to keep the engine clean. It just doesn't do the best job of clean up in some cases. It also rarely contains friction modifier to extend the life of fuel system components. This will be more important in DIG vehicles. Those high pressure pumps are fuel lubricated and can use all the help they can get.
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