SYNC 3 swap, It's all in here

18 APIM connector

Zack if that pinout is from a premium 2018 Ford has changed more than I thought they are no longer using MS-CAN to translate certain HS-CAN messages

15-17 use the MS-CAN signal that is left unused when removing the GPS. If you don't connect these in the 15-17 anything on MS-CAN, such as steering wheel controls, will not work. The GPS antenna is what takes it place.
I don't have a 2018 to check, if Ford is no longer connecting MS-CAN to the APIM they are using a different bus to communicate with the APIM. If that's the case this could have many more implications for people performing swaps, such as 2018 bezels and APIMs being incompatible with the 15-17 because that 18 bezel will expect HS CAN 1, 2 or 3 messages and not MS-CAN.

HextallS550 said:

15-17 use the MS-CAN signal that is left unused when removing the GPS. If you don't connect these in the 15-17 anything on MS-CAN, such as steering wheel controls, will not work. he GPS antenna is what takes it place.
I don't have a 2018 to check, if Ford is no longer connecting MS-CAN to the APIM they are using a different bus to communicate with the APIM. If that's the case this could have many more implications for people performing swaps, such as 2018 bezels and APIMs being incompatible with the 15-17 because that 18 bezel will expect HS CAN 1, 2 or 3 messages and not MS-CAN.

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I am saying that sync 3 does not use 16-17 due to the fact that the male connector I received was from a 16 sync 3 system and it to did not have 16-17 populated. I don't have access to a 16 connector view (thought I did) to confirm but I doubt there will be any compatibility issues APIM wise (bezel might be another story so we shall see on that).

zackmd1 said:

I am saying that sync 3 does not use 16-17 due to the fact that the male connector I received was from a 16 sync 3 system and it to did not have 16-17 populated. I don't have access to a 16 connector view (thought I did) to confirm but I doubt there will be any compatibility issues APIM wise (bezel might be another story so we shall see on that).

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Again, 15-17 Sync 3 cars DO use 16 and 17 for MS-CAN. Not sure how much more proof you want? Look at the MS-CAN tree in any Ford wiring publication for 15-17 cars.

HextallS550 said:

Again, 15-17 Sync 3 cars DO use 16 and 17 for MS-CAN. Not sure how much more proof you want? Look at the MS-CAN tree in any Ford wiring publication for 15-17 cars.

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Do you have access to an APIM connector view for a 2016? That would be what shows us if it's needed or not. All of my info shows it is not needed. My male APIM connector still had OEM leads (they cut the harness about 3 in behind the connector) and it did NOT have anything in 16-17. I don't know what to tell you beyond that since that connector was not from an 18 and was from a 16. That connector view will be what tells us for sure which is the right answer.

See pins 16 and 17 and read the notes. Or ask anyone that has improperly installed their MS-CAN wiring why they lost function after that part of the tree.

HextallS550 said:

See pins 16 and 17 and read the notes. Or ask anyone that has improperly installed their MS-CAN wiring why they lost function after that part of the tree.

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I am not trying to argue here. Just trying to get to the bottom of this discrepancy. Again my OEM 2016 sync 3 connector did not have 16-17 populated. I can't 100% confirm that it came from a 16 mustang though (even though the listing said it was).

I'm not trying to argue either, I'm trying to keep a gluttony of PM's coming my way about what is and what isn't being changed. Any time someone has come in and made mention of something they heard or saw regarding the swap my inbox blows up with questions that have been answered many times.

I'm not surprised at all that Ford changed the operation of the 18, the number of cars built with base electronics has decreased dramatically, however it is important to know know that if you are using an APIM from a 15-17 in an 18 you will most likely need to provide it with MS-CAN.

As far as your harness, I never trust ANYTHING on eBay. Last week I had a guy from MI argue with me by phone that the APIM he sold one of my customers was NAV, (it wasn't) he claimed that you could not install NAV into a Non NAV car. We all know that's BS! But he claimed to sell Sync 3 swaps "all day, every day." When I asked what he used to make the changes to hex code he stuttered and tried to give me some BS about special Ford programming" access.

So to summarize, Sync 3 swaps into 2015-17 cars need to provide MS-CAN, using the leftover GPS module connector, as my harness does, provides easy access to the bus. You can grab it other places but it's more of a headache.

HextallS550 said:

I'm not trying to argue either, I'm trying to keep a gluttony of PM's coming my way about what is and what isn't being changed. Any time someone has come in and made mention of something they heard or saw regarding the swap my inbox blows up with questions that have been answered many times.

I'm not surprised at all that Ford changed the operation of the 18, the number of cars built with base electronics has decreased dramatically, however it is important to know know that if you are using an APIM from a 15-17 in an 18 you will most likely need to provide it with MS-CAN.

As far as your harness, I never trust ANYTHING on eBay. Last week I had a guy from MI argue with me by phone that the APIM he sold one of my customers was NAV, (it wasn't) he claimed that you could not install NAV into a Non NAV car. We all know that's BS! But he claimed to sell Sync 3 swaps "all day, every day." When I asked what he used to make the changes to hex code he stuttered and tried to give me some BS about special Ford programming" access.

So to summarize, Sync 3 swaps into 2015-17 cars need to provide MS-CAN, using the leftover GPS module connector, as my harness does, provides easy access to the bus. You can grab it other places but it's more of a headache.

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I understand where you are coming from. I should be finishing up a sync 3 install in my 18 within the next 2-3 weeks so I should be able to confirm parts compatibility and so forth on 18+ mustangs.

My assumption was that all Ford models using the same style of sync 3 had a universal APIM pinout which would confirm that 16-17 are not used. That being said it seems that you have had to solve issues with some that did not swap MS CAN so I am not sure about that universal pinout anymore.

First apologies to those who have sent a PM in the past 2 weeks as well as those still waiting on harnesses from the last batch of 5. Number two was finished last night, number three was started last night as well. As many know, I am not a business such as 4DTech or OEMRadio and as such I don't farm out work or have a commercial address that UPS frequents. I build when I can and ship when I can. typically I am at work from 5:30a to 5:30 or 6 p and the small town USPS office located on my way to and from work is out of the way making it difficult to ship. Shipping from home isn't an option either because of the way USPS services the complex. When my role at work changed I went from a lot of downtime to WOT faster than I anticipated. However, I am still committed to bringing people on this forum an affordable, easy to use harnesses, built and delivered in a timely manner.
To that end I am happy to announce that I have partnered with the only company I would trust to build anything with my name, JDC III Designs is now assisting me with harness fabrication and my close friend, Chris Murphy who has 20 years in Ford and GM Parts and Service Operations is now handling the orders and the shipping.
What this means is that in the next month or so harnesses will no longer be prepay and we are attempting to keep 5 of them in stock at all times. When one sells another 1 or 2 will be built.It will take a few weeks for this to come together as I have to deliver the parts to JDC but if you are on the list for one of the next 5 your wait time will be significantly shorter. I am still available for technical questions and I am finishing a new installation manual for people who get the harness from me that will be all inclusive and includes pictures, accurate descriptions and Ford service manual information for a complete, easy, DIY plug and play swap.

HextallS550 said:

First apologies to those who have sent a PM in the past 2 weeks as well as those still waiting on harnesses from the last batch of 5. Number two was finished last night, number three was started last night as well.

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No rush, but do you know where my harness falls in line? Thanks!

Has anyone been able to fix the GPS issue?
The map sometimes shows me traveling in the opposite direction. I replaced the GPS antenna, installed the antenna on a 4”x4” metal plate, updated the Sync 3 software, and I still have the same issue. A radio reset fixes the issue (pressing the power and fwd buttons for a few seconds) temporarily. It mostly happens when I drive in reverse before driving forward, like driving out of a parking lot.

^Mine corrected itself after entering diagnostic mode and testing the satellite signal strength and location. Can't say for sure that's what did it but I didn't have any problems since. Would be curious to see if it works in your case as well.

As suggested by a forum member, I installed the GPS antenna on top of aluminum foil (4"x3"). Still having the same issue. Entering diagnostic mode and testing the satellite location and signal seems to fix the issue until I restart the car and drive in reverse. At this point I believe that the APIM has issues. The strange thing is that I had the same APIM on my '16 V6 auto, and never had any GPS issues (I relocated the pins on the APIM connector during the Sync 3 swap). I trade that car for a '17 V6 manual, but installed the APIM with a plug&play harness. Not sure if that has anything to do.:shrug:
Satellite radio antenna is next to GPS antenna. No sure if that affects the GPS signal reception.

tom_hd02 said:

As suggested by a forum member, I installed the GPS antenna on top of aluminum foil (4"x3"). Still having the same issue. Entering diagnostic mode and testing the satellite location and signal seems to fix the issue until I restart the car and drive in reverse. At this point I believe that the APIM has issues. The strange thing is that I had the same APIM on my '16 V6 auto, and never had any GPS issues (I relocated the pins on the APIM connector during the Sync 3 swap). I trade that car for a '17 V6 manual, but installed the APIM with a plug&play harness. Not sure if that has anything to do.:shrug:
Satellite radio antenna is next to GPS antenna. No sure if that affects the GPS signal reception.

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You actually need to program the APIM based on your transmission (AT or MT)...can't remember the bit on the as-built but this definitely will fix your issue.