Recent Procharger Install Concerns

dubster99 said:

Wasn't the surge tune related in the PC tune?

Click to expand...

Some had it, but Lund had issues with it too. I had surge issues but swapped to a Boss manifold to get rid of it vs tune revisions. My money has always been on IMRC’s causing the issue. Some will say it’s just the tune.

I don’t want to say the PC tune is the issue but a canned tune for a boost setup is not ideal IMHO... specifically for issues like this if it ends up not being an install issue.

Does PC do tune revisions? I think PC has been known to review logs and modify.

MyLilPony said:

Surge is bucking and not Procharger related but Tune related hence the fight over which tuner does a better job getting rid of it. Since he didn’t say it jumps like a redneck to a cousin kissing contest I am gonna say it’s not surge.

Oh OP: if your going WOT under 3k you’re doing it wrong. Not good for the motor; don’t expect much till about 3500 from your PC.

Click to expand...

Not even close to WOT, lets say half way down the throttle, enough to push power, but certainly not enough to come close to breaking the tires loose. The feeling is not like a buck or jump but just plain slop... almost like hitting a mild pothole at random. I'd say 99% of my driving finds the motor under 3.5K RPMs, so I'm not working the car very hard. Have maybe gone WOT twice since install, both times from third as I've merged onto the highway, response has been excellent each time.

MyLilPony said:

not sure if the S2 kit comes with injectors and a BAP, does it? Is the start issue present at cold start only, hot start only or both? There was a hot start issue a while back but that issue has been worked out by most tunerss by now. I would assume PC has done the same but maybe not; im unsure of how often they revise their base tune.

Smell and weird boost hit could be plug issue, re-gap to .28/.30 like other mentioned. Did you have an intake prior to installing the PC kit? If not you may just be getting a whiff of something new. Mine smells like fuel all the time but vented PCV and no cats will do that

PC is extremely linear in the building of boost. You shouldn't have a "hit" unless you drop a gear and stab it... Might want to check the tension of your belt to be sure. Feel free to post a pic of your hash marks and you will get feedback from folks here.

If non of that helps....Lund....

Click to expand...

Here are pics of the hash marks

sub'd... good luck man. There's ATI procharger here in Lenexa i've heard good things about... might be able to give a hand.

KSU Stang said:

Yeah I'm KC so any of the waterways have 93 regularly available. SW Kansas?

Click to expand...

Ya I'm in Wichita. You know Procharger is HQ right down the street from you?

Swing by. Maybe [MENTION=11041]ProChargerTECH[/MENTION] can take a look, or recommend another tech.

I would put money on regapping the plugs should solve a fair amount of your problems, do you have any Data logs?

MyLilPony said:

Surge is bucking and not Procharger related but Tune related hence the fight over which tuner does a better job getting rid of it. Since he didn’t say it jumps like a redneck to a cousin kissing contest I am gonna say it’s not surge.

Oh OP: if your going WOT under 3k you’re doing it wrong. Not good for the motor; don’t expect much till about 3500 from your PC.

Click to expand...

[MENTION=20966]diablomatt[/MENTION] correct me if I am wrong, but I thought you felt the surge wasnt from the tune, but the file the tune was built off of? Even stock mustangs were known to surge from time to time. I also thought surging was from IMRC's at first if Matt says it wasnt the cause and he was the reason the surging went away I am going to believe him.

[MENTION=15176]MyLilPony[/MENTION] Curious what you mean when you say it isnt a good idea to go WOT below 3k, is this from there is no boost at this point or is there another reason not to do it?

Davepurp said:

[MENTION=15176]MyLilPony[/MENTION] Curious what you mean when you say it isnt a good idea to go WOT below 3k, is this from there is no boost at this point or is there another reason not to do it?

Click to expand...

Quite hard on the rotating assembly to put that much load on it at low rpms. ESPECIALLY an engine that isn't up to full operating temp.

KSU Stang said:

1) Rough start - It sputters almost every time the ignition button is pressed, with the car evening out after the first few seconds, but it has died a few times. Once it does even it out, the car idles steady at roughly .75K rpms

Click to expand...

Easy, easy fix... you must have the 95lb injectors.

Not all of those injectors react the same on cold and hot starts.
I have seen EVERY tuner in this forum fight it on some cars.
(Just only a handful are adult enough to admit it)

I can fix your start issue with one simple step....
Just tell me what the Engine coolant temp is at the start.
Some examples below.

IE: 50 degrees = starts good, 140 degrees = semi good, 200 = not good
IE: 50 degrees = starts good, 130 degrees = not good, 200 = good


I literally just fixed a GT350 for this exact issue this morning.
Car had never had a starting issue till the temp dropped below 30 degress.
(Simple 15% addition of fuel at the correct temp, and shes all fixed up)

2) There is a rich fuel smell when stopped and idling, I've checked around the fuel rails and injectors, no sight of leaks.

Click to expand...

The PCV system is now a little more "open" then stock.
So some people smell that just a bit more then others.
Nothing to be concerned about.

3) On cold starts, there seems to be some sort of lag or belt slipping, especially noticeable in lower gears around the 2k RPM range, power seems to be now where to be found and then comes on strong, which makes for a very unpleasant driving experience.

Click to expand...

On cold start and warm up, our tune is in whats called "Emissions mode"
And that comes with reduced timing to get the Cat converts to "light off"

Not until about 140 degrees of coolant will everything be at full power.
This is the same as the cars are stock, and how they should remain.

FWIW, the car is putting down ~595 rwhp and 500 ft/lb. Running on 93 octane.

Any help / advice would be much appreciated!

Click to expand...

The best part about this post.... ..... I have already seen the log from your car. (actually have it on my laptop) And the only thing holding your car back is that you are on whats known as "Winter Fuel" sadly here in KS we get really bad fuel in the fall/winter/early spring... It really doesn't like timing up top.

So it might say "93" at the pump... but its basically what I call "Cali fuel" as a joke.
Cause their fuel sucks year round... ours only sucks in colder climates.

Your car is working 100% normal, and the knock system is doing its job.
And your car technically made MORE power then a whipple car on the whipple tune, on that very same dyno. (Both blowers power being limited by fuel)



Don't let the "internet" tell you what your car should make.
Unless they are running the same fuel from the same gas station you are.
It technically doesn't matter.

I have seen some "name brand" tune files still coming in with the knock sensors disabled.
Which sure would help you make more power on junk fuel like winter gas.
BUT, also could end up costing you the tops of your pistions...





END RESULT:
1) Get me the info to fix your cold start.
2) Enjoy that car and all the power she now makes
3) Wait till better fuel in summer, and you will see the power rise.

Davepurp said:

[MENTION=20966]diablomatt[/MENTION] Even stock mustangs were known to surge from time to time.

Click to expand...

I been daily driving a GT350 for a while, and let me tell you about the surge stock... LOL. You can even see it in the dyno runs stock.

Lots of stuff goes on when the cams are moving, and the IMRC's are trying to move at the same time.

My simple solution, don't hit that magic "point"
Its very easy to avoid, and doesn't take away from my driving experience at all.


Kinda like flooring that car below 3k rpm...
It ends up being slower all the way to 8,300rpm...
Since the knock sensors pick up burst knock, and carry it through.

Now just rolling into the throttle up to about 4K,
and WHEEEEEEEEEEE more powah...!

ProChargerTECH said:

1) Get me the info to fix your cold start.
2) Enjoy that car and all the power she now makes
3) Wait till better fuel in summer, and you will see the power rise.

Click to expand...

Thanks for all the info and help, sent a DM, will update everyone on the outcome. Shared this PCTech as well, but the kit was awesome to install, super straightforward... been otherwise really happy with the results.

KSU Stang said:

Thanks for all the info and help, sent a DM, will update everyone on the outcome. Shared this PCTech as well, but the kit was awesome to install, super straightforward... been otherwise really happy with the results.

Click to expand...

Awesome, thanks!

Jay-rod427 said:

Quite hard on the rotating assembly to put that much load on it at low rpms. ESPECIALLY an engine that isn't up to full operating temp.

Click to expand...

Do you think this could cause knock readings?

I have noticed if I go straight to WOT I will almost always pull timing. When if I gradually add to the throttle I almost always add timing

Davepurp said:

Do you think this could cause knock readings?

I have noticed if I go straight to WOT I will almost always pull timing. When if I gradually add to the throttle I almost always add timing

Click to expand...

Yep I noticed the same thing I do a shit load of data logs.If I try to do a log from 3k to 7300 rpms the knock sensors pick up knock right away,not detonation but because they have an anticipation aspect built in the knock sensors really never recovers to add full timing.Now if u start at 4k or slowly roll the throttle if under 4k my knock sensors go straight to 20 degrees of timing and stay their the hole run.

I know this is a slightly older thread(new member here) but I think the surge issues are two fold, I fought some really ugly surging issues for a while and had alot of much smarter people than I take a look, eventually I found copying over some changes from a roush tune pretty much got rid of it. There is a table in HP Tuners software named Optimum Power Load at wot vs. RPM, I found that by modifying low to mid rpm range got rid of a good majority of it. I also think it has to do with the BOV, because BOV's are basically either all open or all closed you can get caught in a spot where it doesn't seem to be able to make up its mind and you can see the boost gauge just bouncing between boost & vacuum. Don't ask me why changing the table would help with what appears to be a "mechanical" issue but I tested it and that appears to hugely help and I tried ALOT of things. I definitely didn't think tuning for boost was going to be as difficult as it turned out, Erik from procharger really went above and beyond to help me get on track, because I have a d1x & race intercooler on an S197 its not really an off the shelf combination by any means but he was able to get me a starter tune that at least got it to the point where it was driveable so I definitely give him huge props :first:

Hey guys - thought I'd provide an update to my own thread, for those who were wonder / interested / considering supercharging their car.

PCTech and I have been playing phone tag via PMs for a better part of two months now. I've sent over everything he's asked for, and hopefully I'll have a new tune in my inbox soon.

In the meantime, I re-gapped down to .28 on all the plugs and if anything the start and initial drive quality is worse now. The car consistently has rough starts and attempts to die. Even if I let the car warm up for a few minutes, it still likes to idle high and then struggle with the first few gear changes. My best guess is there is an issue with the air/fuel/ignition ratio.

Once the car has been driven for a while, it is incredibly smooth and responsive, but I must admit its totally unacceptable to have to wait for 15-20 minutes for that to become a reality. I have a 12 minute commute to work and the car spends most of that time trying to decide whether or not its going to behave appropriately.

I went with Procharger because I wanted more power, but not at the cost of sacrificing daily driver characteristics. I'm really hoping that the yet to be delivered new tune solves the problems, but my patience with the driving experience is running thin. Uninstalling the kit is certainly on the table at this point.