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Road and Track Article on the PP2 - It's not a track car

JD_GTPP2

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I bought the August Road and Track issue today just for the PP2 article. The crux of the "not a track car" portion is below:


This is verbatim from the article:

R&T: Unlike the GT350, the PP2 doesn't have a differential- or transmission-oil coolers to allow for extended track time. One has to ask, why weren't they added?

"We obviously knew we could do that," Barnes (Mustang Vehicle Engineering manager Tom Barnes) says. "But I'd just say that we didn't want to go there. And there are a lot of different reasons why. This (the PP2) is sandwiched between the GT350 and the PP1. If you start to add those (coolers), you add complexity, engineering, weight, cost. In the end, we didn't want to go to that full track capability. We thought this was a good place."

R&T: If you want a full-on track car, get a Shelby GT350R or a Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE. If you want a car to live on the road, the PP2 is your choice.

Barnes says that while people will still think it's a 1LE competitor, and it'll perform well against a 1LE in a single lap, it's just not the right car for an extended lapping session. The aim of this passion project was to hone the ultimate street Mustang from a car they had already spent time developing.


:doh:
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Austinj427

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They probably should have given it coolers.

I am interested in how long it can lap though, my PP1 would give me warnings occasionally but I never actually overheated anything.

If it can run for a full 20 minute session in temps below 90, that will cover a significant portion of the HPDE crowd.
 

WildHorse

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Thermowrap the exhaust closest to the diff and run full synthetic. Problem solved(ish).
 

JohnD

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The problem is that the PP2 sells for more than a 1SS 1LE, due in no small part to the extraneous junk that Ford forces you to buy now when you order any PP package. Glad I got my base PP car when I did, there is absolutely no way I would buy a new Mustang given their policies now.

If I had to do it all over again I would for sure buy the 1SS 1LE, get a better track car and save a few bucks in the process. The only thing I don't like about the 1LE is the 20" wheels, but I've already bought 2 sets of wheels to replace the narrow heavy wheels that Ford put on the PP1 Mustang, so it's a wash on that issue anyway.

I've never owned a GM car and am not a GM fanboy, but I have to give them major credit for what they did with the 1LE. To me, this just looks like Ford trying to protect GT350 sales.
 
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JD_GTPP2

JD_GTPP2

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Thermowrap the exhaust closest to the diff and run full synthetic. Problem solved(ish).

If my dead PP2 is somehow miraculously resurrected after its engine failure I plan to go this route as a starting point before the car ever sees the track. If that doesn't work, the folks at Full Tilt Boogie Racing have a differential cooling kit, while MMR sells an oil cooling kit
 

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bluebeastsrt

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The problem is that the PP2 sells for more than a 1SS 1LE, due in no small part to the extraneous junk that Ford forces you to buy now when you order any PP package. Glad I got my base PP car when I did, there is absolutely no way I would buy a new Mustang given their policies now.

If I had to do it all over again I would for sure buy the 1SS 1LE, get a better track car and save a few bucks in the process. The only thing I don't like about the 1LE is the 20" wheels, but I've already bought 2 sets of wheels to replace the narrow heavy wheels that Ford put on the PP1 Mustang, so it's a wash on that issue anyway.

I've never owned a GM car and am not a GM fanboy, but I have to give them major credit for what they did with the 1LE. To me, this just looks like Ford trying to protect GT350 sales.
I have to agree about GT350 sales. The problem with the PP2. Is it rubs up to close to the GT350 if it was spec'd correctly. Where as since the ZL1 benefited from the Zo6 Corvettes running gear. There is a large enough performance gap. Between the ZL1 and the 1Le. That GM didnt need to worry about f$%king over the guys that spent the big bucks on the top dog Camaro. Since Ford is so late to the game with a GT500. They have to worry about making a GT that'll hang with a GT350 that cost 15 grand more. So they nutter the PP2 slightly.
 

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grabber yote

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I don't understand why all the premium options are mandatory when ordering a PP2... I got my base PP 17 GT because I wanted a more stripped down pony car... I have leather, heated/cooled seats, nav etc in my 2017 F150
 

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Ford is also pricing themselves out of the pony car market. 50k for a GT is retarded. The GT500 is gonna be outrageously priced also.
I have to agree about GT350 sales. The problem with the PP2. Is it rubs up to close to the GT350 if it was spec'd correctly. Where as since the ZL1 benefited from the Zo6 Corvettes running gear. There is a large enough performance gap. Between the ZL1 and the 1Le. That GM didnt need to worry about f$%king over the guys that spent the big bucks on the top dog Camaro. Since Ford is so late to the game with a GT500. They have to worry about making a GT that'll hang with a GT350 that cost 15 grand more. So they nutter the PP2 slightly.
 

TomcatDriver

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I don't understand why all the premium options are mandatory when ordering a PP2... I got my base PP 17 GT because I wanted a more stripped down pony car... I have leather, heated/cooled seats, nav etc in my 2017 F150
The problem is that the PP2 sells for more than a 1SS 1LE, due in no small part to the extraneous junk that Ford forces you to buy now when you order any PP package. Glad I got my base PP car when I did, there is absolutely no way I would buy a new Mustang given their policies now.

If I had to do it all over again I would for sure buy the 1SS 1LE, get a better track car and save a few bucks in the process. The only thing I don't like about the 1LE is the 20" wheels, but I've already bought 2 sets of wheels to replace the narrow heavy wheels that Ford put on the PP1 Mustang, so it's a wash on that issue anyway.

I've never owned a GM car and am not a GM fanboy, but I have to give them major credit for what they did with the 1LE. To me, this just looks like Ford trying to protect GT350 sales.
I'm confused by these two comments, in that you can get a "base" PP2, all that is required is the 301A package. You are correct about pricing though. The 1SS 1LE is an "all in" package for $7000 that includes magnaride, Recaro seats, 285/305R20s, Brembo brakes, AND cooling, a HUD and all the other goodies. $44,995 MSRP. All this while the PP2 requires 301A and therefore costs $8500 + $1595 for Recaros at $46,445 and you still don't get coolers or a bunch of other stuff.
 

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No doubt, the SS with the 1LE is the better choice for track duty. Kudos to GM for putting together such a great package for those enthusiasts who prefer to spend their time at that venue. For those who hoped the PP2 would be a direct competitor to the SS 1LE, it appears that is not what Ford was going for, so accept the fact the the GM product offers better, more consistent performance on the track and simply enjoy the car for what it is.
 

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Fellas, read between the lies....

Tom Barnes is essentially saying:

If they had added the coolers to the PP2 platform, then the PP2 is treading into the GT350 territory; by doing so Ford would lose GT350 sales over the PP2, which cost less than the GT350. Why purchase a GT350 (other than those who just want the “Shelby” name), when a GT PP2 would be very close to its margin not only in sales but performance?

I’m sure even now, without intention, the GT PP2 has encroached on the GT350...

It’s kinda of like bringing back Mercury - why have a Mercury Milan, when the consumer is gong to buy the Ford Fusion for less with similar performance, or opt for the Lincoln MKZ with more frills?

Or bringing back the Pontiac Trans-Am, which was essentially the same vehicle as the Camaro with merely different names and badges....
 

draph

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So Ford chooses to make no compromises when they go with half inch narrower wheel up front but still with 305 tire on PP2, yet they are willing to compromise the cooling. How much difference would there really have been in performance if they compromised a bit to make it a truly square setup (tires AND wheels identical between front and back) where you could rotate the tires on "the ultimate street Mustang" to even out your tire wear on those already short-life SC 2 tires?


For those comparing a loaded PP2, note you can get a 2SS 1LE with all the Camaro comfort features as well, including heated and cooled Recaro's, the HUD, and throw in the performance data recorder for a little over $52K MSRP. I test drove one before deciding on my PP1...if only the Camaro were better suited for DD duty...
 

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I stand corrected on all premium options but why is the 301A even required with the PP2 when you can order a GT350 with base model GT 300a options? A friend of mine has a base GT350 with the 4 inch base sync system and no "fluff".
I'm confused by these two comments, in that you can get a "base" PP2, all that is required is the 301A package. You are correct about pricing though. The 1SS 1LE is an "all in" package for $7000 that includes magnaride, Recaro seats, 285/305R20s, Brembo brakes, AND cooling, a HUD and all the other goodies. $44,995 MSRP. All this while the PP2 requires 301A and therefore costs $8500 + $1595 for Recaros at $46,445 and you still don't get coolers or a bunch of other stuff.
 

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Moral of the story...buy a base GT and add your own aftermarket suspension, wheels and tires. You will spend less money and have a platform better suited for track duty.
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