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Did anyone ever do a Perf Pack 2 vs 1LE test?

martinjlm

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“In my opinion the gt350 is a flop. An embarrassment to ford engineering. And the slowest 530hp car I’ve ever seen.

The only magic behind the voodoo is how it can be slower than a 460 hp gt with an 70hp advantage. Even on the same platform and at a lighter weight. They can’t even outrun a new m6 gt with a weight advantage and 70 more hp. The voodoo is garbage. Slow and unreliable. Better luck next time”
Are you quoting ULTRAZLS1 from Camaro 6 G or do you also post over there under that screenname?
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w3rkn

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Because a $40K 1LE (45K list) will give a $70K (60K list) GT350 all it can handle.

But asking for a Mustang as good or better than a 1LE for the same or less money is heracy to many on this site, even though many of them would never trade their GT Premium for a hard edged track special (and thus don't have a dog in this fight).
Again, if you are looking for cheap thrills, the Camaro has it in spades.

What you trade off for Camaro's cheap performance, is style, ergonomics, ride comfort, reputation, etc. Where as, the GT PP2 you don't trade anything off.
 

JohnnyUtah

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Again, if you are looking for cheap thrills, the Camaro has it in spades.

What you trade off for Camaro's cheap performance, is style, ergonomics, ride comfort, reputation, etc. Where as, the GT PP2 you don't trade anything off.
Style? Opinion. I love the way my SS 1LE looks. I think the Mustang looks great too. There are people who don't like either.

Ergonomics? I guess. But I don't seem to have any problems. Not sure what this refers to. Visibility?

Ride comfort? Not sure what you are talking about. The car has a very compliant ride with the standard magnetic ride. The Recaros are fantastic as well.

Reputation? I can't believe that was even listed. The Mustang and the Camaro are both white trash cars. Hilarious that anyone thinks otherwise.

The PP2 has yet to be tested head to head as far as I know, so you aren't even sure if it can match the 1LE performance. I think it will probably be close, but I'd be curious if the PP2 could handle multiple long track sessions without additional cooling. Those Sport Cup 2 are gonna wear pretty badly on the street as well. The Supercar G3s are a really great performance tire without horrendous street wear. They really are the sweet spot for me for a daily driver and track tire. I wouldn't want sport cups on a daily.

I think there are tradeoffs that you are ignoring as listed above. It really depends on your use case.
 

WildHorse

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Take a BASE GT and you can build it faster than a 1LE at the track for less money (base GT + mods) then it would cost to buy the 1LE outright. IMO anyways.
 

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tyler2k

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By all track metrics, the GT350R thoroughly kicks the 1LE's ass. Over 1.5 seconds faster around Laguna is hardly "giving all it can handle". To say the 1LE gives the GT350R all it can handle is akin to saying the 1LE gives the ZL1 all it can handle...as the GT350R is much closer around the track to the ZL1 than the 1LE is to the GT350R.
how come every time the 1le vs the gt350 comes up everyone goes right to ya ok the gt350r would kill it. first off he said the gt350 not the r and by all the data we have there's no reason to think a 1le couldn't hang with gt350 and is sure as hell hope a car that can barely be had for under 80k after adm, meaning the r, it better beat i a 1le, hell dealer by me had a r for closer to 100k. and if speaking of all out track cars, which is what the r is intended for, the zl1 1le is way better on the track for less money
 

JohnnyUtah

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Take a BASE GT and you can build it faster than a 1LE at the track for less money (base GT + mods) then it would cost to buy the 1LE outright. IMO anyways.
I'm not sure that's even true (at least for the road course). Upgrading cooling, the suspension, wheels/tires, seats, brakes, etc. Is not cheap.

On top of that there are some nice things like the e-diff, HUD, and magneride. And of course the warranty for all those things.

The PP2 and 1LE are likely a better buy than trying to do it yourself. Although that can be fun. I don't have the time for that anymore though. I need a car that is arrive and drive.
 

millhouse

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how come every time the 1le vs the gt350 comes up everyone goes right to ya ok the gt350r would kill it. first off he said the gt350 not the r and by all the data we have there's no reason to think a 1le couldn't hang with gt350 and is sure as hell hope a car that can barely be had for under 80k after adm, meaning the r, it better beat i a 1le, hell dealer by me had a r for closer to 100k. and if speaking of all out track cars, which is what the r is intended for, the zl1 1le is way better on the track for less money
Because the person I quoted was using MSRP and markups for the GT350R, not the GT350. And for track duty, a GT350 with comparable 1LE tires is still going to be ahead. As good as the MPSS and PS4 tires are, they still are no match for better track tires.

As for the ZL1 1LE, it's utter garbage for anything but track duty....and will drop in value like a rock (just like the Z28 did) once a faster version of the next gen comes out. Ford specialty vehicles do very well in value retention compared to GM's.

People can rip on the admin costs all they want, but people still pay it. GM guys absolutely HATE that Ford has vehicles that are so desirable that people are willing to pay more just to have it.
 

JohnnyUtah

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People can rip on the admin costs all they want, but people still pay it. GM guys absolutely HATE that Ford has vehicles that are so desirable that people are willing to pay more just to have it.
That's a funny take. I might be considered a GM guy here since I have a Camaro, but if the GT350 wasn't priced as such, I would likely be a Mustang guy. I just cant justify the price when the 1LE is 20k cheaper when all is said and done. I guess I'm not a brand guy though.
 

millhouse

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That's a funny take. I might be considered a GM guy here since I have a Camaro, but if the GT350 wasn't priced as such, I would likely be a Mustang guy. I just cant justify the price when the 1LE is 20k cheaper when all is said and done. I guess I'm not a brand guy though.
The guys that truly buy these cars to push them to the limits on a road coarse are few and far between. I wouldn't fault anyone for their purchase and understand your position. Unfortunate for people like you, others are willing to pay far more for the GT350/R.

For me personally, I couldn't justify sacrificing visibly, looks, back seat space and a tiny trunk for such a small performance difference. Any yes, for what I use it for, the performance delta is tiny.
 

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thehunterooo

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The one thing I could never figure out is how the 1LE has no ADM.
 

Mountain376

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I'm not going to reply to that whole long book. I was upset that Ford advertised the GT350 as the most track capable Mustang ever and then my car got hot on track on a cool day within 5 minutes or so. It was a real pain to swap out the transmission and add a rear diff cooler to the car. And then having the new parts not covered by warranty sucks even harder. I'm not going to say Ford's builds are perfect or they don't make mistakes/choices that annoy me.

1. However, Ford did have the balls to put a FPC motor in the GT350, and the brakes and suspension are amazing. I mostly bought the GT350 for the engine. I'm an engine guy, and the Voodoo is worth the extra dough for the GT350 by itself, IMO. All the other improvements over a regular GT are just icing on the cake. I love how the car works on the track, and it is actually awesome to drive every day to work as well. It is super well behaved on the street. The suspension is the perfect combo of firm but not harsh at all. The engine is so fun to play with in stop and go traffic, and everything about the car is great as a driver and now it does great on the track as well.

When I'm on the track I enjoy driving fast and exploring the limits of my car and myself. When I catch someone and have to find a way around them I do feel good about it, but I'm mostly annoyed that I have to slow down because someone is in my way. I usually enjoy the last session of the day the most because there are fewer people on the track and I can focus on the track and my driving.

If there was something changed to the car where it was 3 seconds per lap faster, I'm not sure I would realize or notice the difference on the track. I probably wouldn't. If that change made the car suck during daily driving, I wouldn't want it.

2. I can see you are maybe saying you want Ford to build a car with rock hard suspension, carbon brakes, plastic seats, no sound deadening, etc. and people like me who want to be comfortable on a daily commute are ruining that. I think you are correct on that. But it's not Ford listening to me because I bought a couple cars from them. It's common sense that most people buy a new car to mostly drive around on the street (top priority) and then some track use is a much lower priority. If I'm low on cash I might skip some track outings, but I'm not going to skip on going to work in the car.

Sorry I feel I'm getting off subject here. I will try to bring it back. When I test drove the Camaro I didn't expect to be able to drive it all out on the track to make a comparison with my Mustang. I drove it on the street. And so I was comparing the two cars driving on the street - also trying to determine the potential of the Camaro on the track without being able to push it too hard. Of course I did some full throttle blasts in the car and took it to some places where the cornering grip was tested. But the bottom line for me was I just didn't enjoy driving the car as much. So... coming back to my original point. A couple seconds better time around a track is nothing compared to the hours and hours spent in the car on the street. That boring engine, low visibility, etc... not interested.
1. Agreed. Although the FPC Voodoo is kind of a gimmick now, it is very cool and I give Ford a thunderous applaud for pulling through with it. I know it was very difficult, both on the production side and the GT-350R-C effort... Intoxicating sound, too.

2. You’re making an assumption with 1990’s technical capabilities in mind. For what I’m talking about doesn’t require significant sacrifices in driveability in respect to a daily-driven Street car. The engineering capability is there... you own an example. And you can’t throw, “well it cost more” as a defense, because the things that make your GT350 work, chassis and suspension wise, are available in cheaper cars, even the Mustang, itself now.
 

Mountain376

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Because the person I quoted was using MSRP and markups for the GT350R, not the GT350. And for track duty, a GT350 with comparable 1LE tires is still going to be ahead. As good as the MPSS and PS4 tires are, they still are no match for better track tires.

As for the ZL1 1LE, it's utter garbage for anything but track duty....and will drop in value like a rock (just like the Z28 did) once a faster version of the next gen comes out. Ford specialty vehicles do very well in value retention compared to GM's.

People can rip on the admin costs all they want, but people still pay it. GM guys absolutely HATE that Ford has vehicles that are so desirable that people are willing to pay more just to have it.
Because it’s a track car... no one should say anything otherwise. GM even says that: It’s not for people that want “the best of the best” and don’t intend to actually drive the car. It is a track car you can drive on the street. The ZL1 1LE is a different animal than the GT350 and GT350R... The SS 1LE and ZL1 and the cars to compare to those. :shrug:
 

martinjlm

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The one thing I could never figure out is how the 1LE has no ADM.
Because GM strongly discourages it. I recall when the C6 ZR1 was announced. There were some dealers who were considering taking early deposits. GM came down as hard as it could without violating dealership agreements. I am not saying that this is what happened, but if you are a Chevy dealer would you thumb your nose and take deposits over MSRP and run the risk of not getting a high allotment of new Silverados (the REAL money makers)?
 

Mountain376

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Honestly, I am highly anticipating a GT PP2 vs SS 1LE comparison:

1. I’m really curious how Ford did with the MRC cal.
2. I’m really curious on the suspension and steering feedback on the Mustang.
3. How the brakes compare between the two cars (initial bite feel, overall power, modulation, thermal capability).
4. What’s the feedback between the Mustangs Michelin’s and the Camaros Goodyear’s?
5. I really want to see how close the Mustang gets to the 1LE in lap time.

If the Mustang beats the Camaro then, bravo; good job, Ford! We can argue who’s faster, but the PP2 hasn’t shown its colors just yet.
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