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MT Head 2 Head - 2018 Camaro SS 1LE vs 2018 Mustang GT

thill444

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With the 18 PP1 you get the new Pilot Sport 4S which are the best tires I have ever owned. It makes getting the PP1 a no brainier. The PP2 gets you Michelin Cups.

The Sport 4S tires are close to $1200 at Tire Rack before shipping for a set.
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morgande

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I hated the suspension in the PP (Bouncy), I also hated it in the base car (Floaty) so I knew it was going to go, why pay extra for it?
...
The only thing I regret are the brakes, They look much better on a PP car and absolutely killer on the GTPP, I figured I was going to buy GTPP brakes at some point anyways, but the stock brakes have hauled me down from 170mph multiple times without complaint or worry (I wouldn't trust them on a second lap of the Nurburgring though). I did one lap in the EB and it was fine but the brakes were getting really soft at the end.
The cost of the bigger brakes alone will justify the PP cost. Most people swap out the PP suspension. Hell even Ford themselves offer two upgrades. But for me it was more cost effective to go with a car that had the PP vs the base car and add all the missing pieces.
 

JChors

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Two points about the 'visibility' and 'tight cabin' arguments against the Camaro. Visibility is not a problem while driving the car if you have your mirrors adjusted properly. An extra turn or two of the neck is required when backing out of a parking space, but that's it. The seating position is low but that's the way it should be in a sports car. I had nothing but RAM duallies and Jeep Wranglers for 20 years before going back to a sports car, and i can tell you it took very little time to adjust to the Camaro. You expect it to be smaller, tighter, and not have acres of glass. So does a Lamborghini owner, and you never hear them complain about it.

As far as a tight cabin, i'm 6'1", close to 3 bills, and i have zero problem entering and exiting . Once i'm in, the Recaros are actually very comfortable for about 3 hours and then i need to stop and stretch. Everything is within easy reach. Some plastics are still crap (like the knee pads), and the door handle could be better, but overall it's a shiteside better than the Gen5's interior. If i can fit in it, 90% of Mustang owners can too.
 

BmacIL

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Yay! C6G ergonomic apologist has arrived!
 

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BmacIL

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I was hoping for an intelligent rebuttal, but...
Well, you're basically dismissing a widely regarded fact that the Camaro has and continues to have quite poor sight lines, blind spots and overall visibility. This has been stated by every publication and by most drivers that aren't willing to just ignore it. Yes, you can see enough to drive safely in it, with properly set mirrors, but that doesn't make it good. GM had the opportunity to significantly improve this and they ignored it. They'll continue to lose in annual sales till things like this are addressed.

Being able to fit doesn't mean it doesn't feel cramped in there. I'm also 6'1 with broad shoulders and found it a little tight. Certainly would be a problem putting a helmet on.
 

JChors

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Well, you're basically dismissing a widely regarded fact that the Camaro has and continues to have quite poor sight lines, blind spots and overall visibility. This has been stated by every publication and by most drivers that aren't willing to just ignore it. Yes, you can see enough to drive safely in it, with properly set mirrors, but that doesn't make it good. GM had the opportunity to significantly improve this and they ignored it. They'll continue to lose in annual sales till things like this are addressed.

Being able to fit doesn't mean it doesn't feel cramped in there. I'm also 6'1 with broad shoulders and found it a little tight. Certainly would be a problem putting a helmet on.
That wasn't so hard, was it? Like you acknowledged, you can drive safely in the Camaro with it's current visibility. It was far from a deal-breaker for me. The small glass, high beltline, and big C pillars are what make the Camaro look good to me and likely ugly to you. C'est la vive. My 1LE has no sunroof so i can fit my 3xl Shoei just fine. My damned feet are the problem. Too wide for the pedal spacing.
 

thill444

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Two points about the 'visibility' and 'tight cabin' arguments against the Camaro. Visibility is not a problem while driving the car if you have your mirrors adjusted properly. An extra turn or two of the neck is required when backing out of a parking space, but that's it. The seating position is low but that's the way it should be in a sports car. I had nothing but RAM duallies and Jeep Wranglers for 20 years before going back to a sports car, and i can tell you it took very little time to adjust to the Camaro. You expect it to be smaller, tighter, and not have acres of glass. So does a Lamborghini owner, and you never hear them complain about it.

As far as a tight cabin, i'm 6'1", close to 3 bills, and i have zero problem entering and exiting . Once i'm in, the Recaros are actually very comfortable for about 3 hours and then i need to stop and stretch. Everything is within easy reach. Some plastics are still crap (like the knee pads), and the door handle could be better, but overall it's a shiteside better than the Gen5's interior. If i can fit in it, 90% of Mustang owners can too.
Honestly I find my C7's sightlines poor and the Camaro is much worse. Like anything I am sure you can get used to it and make it work, but it's a compromise. There are many things to like about the 6gen Camaro, but for me the sightlines and exterior styling are big negatives vs the Mustang.
 

TomcatDriver

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Two points about the 'visibility' and 'tight cabin' arguments against the Camaro. Visibility is not a problem while driving the car if you have your mirrors adjusted properly. An extra turn or two of the neck is required when backing out of a parking space, but that's it. The seating position is low but that's the way it should be in a sports car. I had nothing but RAM duallies and Jeep Wranglers for 20 years before going back to a sports car, and i can tell you it took very little time to adjust to the Camaro. You expect it to be smaller, tighter, and not have acres of glass. So does a Lamborghini owner, and you never hear them complain about it.

As far as a tight cabin, i'm 6'1", close to 3 bills, and i have zero problem entering and exiting . Once i'm in, the Recaros are actually very comfortable for about 3 hours and then i need to stop and stretch. Everything is within easy reach. Some plastics are still crap (like the knee pads), and the door handle could be better, but overall it's a shiteside better than the Gen5's interior. If i can fit in it, 90% of Mustang owners can too.
One of the biggest problems the Camaro has is the sensation of poor visibility. The high belt line for example. Do you really need to see "down" out the side window? No, you need to see directly to the side, forward and back. However, when the door sill is at about chin level it "feels" like you are in a pill-box. If you are a driver of most other cars and you go sit in a Camaro it feels claustrophobic. Can you get used to it? Sure, probably within a couple days, but most people are not going to sit in the car that long before buying. You stroll into your Chevy dealer, sit in it for a couple minutes, maybe go for a 15 min test drive and during that time you will not get used to it. Sure it a nominal sports car, but it's not like it's a low/flat Lamborghini or something.

Some of the visibility issues are quite real. I had one as a rental and at many stop lights I could not see the signal directly ahead of me without ducking my head or lowering the seat further. The side windows are so small that common tasks like a drive through ATM or fast food window are a challenge.
 

BmacIL

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That wasn't so hard, was it? Like you acknowledged, you can drive safely in the Camaro with it's current visibility. It was far from a deal-breaker for me. The small glass, high beltline, and big C pillars are what make the Camaro look good to me and likely ugly to you. C'est la vive. My 1LE has no sunroof so i can fit my 3xl Shoei just fine. My damned feet are the problem. Too wide for the pedal spacing.
I don't love the looks but I understand why it's liked. I'm happy you've got what you want. As enthusiasts it's great we can have these kinds of choices. Just know that GM could've killed Ford's momentum if they had given it better visibility, interior ergo (vents mostly) and usable space like the Mustang. Considering it's the same size car, basically, it was achievable. I have no problem admitting the dynamic prowess of the car. Each car in the segment has its spot. The Camaro the best overall performer. The challenger the biggest, most comfortable cruiser. The Mustang the goldilocks in the middle. Popularity reflects it. The 18 took a big step toward the Camaro in performance without sacrificing its comfort or usability.
 

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JChors

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Yeah, i'm in the minority, and the sales numbers prove it. More people need a car that's more livable than what the Camaro offers. I get that, but i still prefer the Camaro for my needs (weekend backroad burner). edit: To me it is beautiful.
 
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Nabush

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Yeah, i'm in the minority, and the sales numbers prove it. More people need a car that's more livable than what the Camaro offers. I get that, but i still prefer the Camaro for my needs (weekend backroad burner). edit: To me it is beautiful.
To me the SS 1LE looks really really good. Beautiful wheels, front spoiler and canard wing, brakes...Big stance...

Better than the Mustang GT. But if we compare standard Camaro SS vs Mustang GT I think I prefer the Stang
 

dvs73

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This may have been stated before but the Camaro's design is very cartoon like. Which why i think the motion picture association has taken to it (think Transformers). The engines are spot on and im sure there are more than one who wishes as a mustang owner that they had the low end torque that the SS has. I have been a mustang fan since a child and im sure that those who buy the camaro are as well. This debate will not swing many who were "raised" Ford or Chevy fans in the opposite direction. Call me old school but i couldnt pull the trigger on the Camaro just because at a specific time the SS performs better or worse (depending on year). Its complicated and always will be.
 

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All-New Head 2 Head pitting the 2018 Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE vs the 2018 Ford Mustang GT comes out on Wednesday, 1/17 on Motor Trend On Demand!

The excitement is real... :ford:
MotorTrend and the rest of Ten will never change.
1LE vs a GT?
Why not a regular SS vs a GT?
Will there be a 1LE vs GT PP2?
You can bet that Hot Rod and the like will push this as a pro chevy victory to no end!
Where is the shame?
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