V6 automatic....was it a mistake?

Jared_J · Jan 17, 2018

Jared_J said:
The S550 mustang starts in model year 2015.

In years from 2015 automatic beats manual in every way, performance wise.

Some may argue manual is more fun, but it's subjective and I think banging through effortless and efficient paddle shifts is fun as well.

I like torque multiplication and driveline damping of a torque converter, and I like that I have two shift schedules and two throttle responses to switch between.

I don't want my car with all bolt-on mods just to catch up with a stock automatic.

Yeah I'm starting a fight right here and I feel the cannons are aiming at me.

I learned driving with a manual and grew up with a manual, but I still prefer efficiency automatic for fast pace driving in the valleys.

Come on it's 2018 now, automatic is the future.

Edit: You don't need all bolt-on mods for a manual to catch up with a stock automatic. I exaggerated some here and we have a counter proof from another guy. But with all my explanations hope that clarifies your concern on a modern automatic gearbox's performance.

Ps, fordguys550, good job moding your car's engine compartment.

ChiTownStang26 · Jan 17, 2018

M/T untuned kinda made me sad when driving in the city
M/T with MPT tune made me happy driving in the city
M/T made me sad again when I split my stock friction plate at 27k
M/T aggravated me during the long almost 2k mile break in period for a Kevlar clutch
M/T now gives me a chub everytime I drive it with an aftermarket clutch that grabs hard and can shift to 2nd smoothly

codemanstang · Jan 17, 2018

fordguys550 said:
Wow lol. Do you just talk or do you ever drive your car....lol.

I could see how youd go with a AT if you sucked at shifting quickly. Ill leave it at that.

For now, ill go with my own experiences. And beating a s197 at, that had a stripped interior, and drag radials....counts for me. And i didnt just beat him 1 time.....i beat him 3 times. Amd since hes driving a automatic...kinda takes the variable of "professional driver" out of the equation doesnt it, mr engineer lol

Heres a video of 2 of our races...and one against a camaro ss just for fun.

Current kill list..

2015 stg2 wrx
350hp wrx
Pontiac G8, unknown mods
94gt
99gt
2000 camaro ss
2015 challenger rt, 8spd auto
Nsx (freeway pulls and it wasnt stock)
370z, not stock
350z bolt ons
2015 ecoboost manual
S197 FBO stripped interior, drag radials

How about this, ill go with what i know works, and you can go with what you know works. But for now, you can quit trying to convince me that a 3.7 at will beat a 3.7 mt with the same mods...(and somebody who knlws how to shift quickly)

And before you mention it, yes, one of the runs on the video i red lighted. These are the only 2 runs i got on video out of the 4 times we ran, and i beat him every time...obviously not counting the red light

Looks like a list of cars any s550 should beat auto or manual

Tobey · Jan 17, 2018

There's a time and place for everything. I bought a V6 AT to be my daily driver. I like to be lazy on my commute. It's not a race track. And no, I've never regretted the AT. Because I have other toys when that's what I need.
- For weekend fun, I have a 6-speed manual '05 GTO, lightly modded.
- For REAL weekend fun, some friends and I endurance race a '98 M3 in the World Racing League.
- My truck is an auto, because it's easier. Backing trailers with a MT is a PITA. I'm not sure GM ever offered a manual behind their diesels anyway; could be wrong on that one.
- My '99 Cherokee (lifted; lightly modded) is an auto. I prefer the auto offroad; some like a manual. Personal preference on that one.

Life is short. If you want a MT, get one. Or take the money you saved by buying a V6, and get a second car for fun. There's no rule saying you can't have more than one car.

matteos · Jan 17, 2018

fordguys550 said:
Skip to 2:20 lol

Is that spot near Mt Pinos? Think I stopped my car in the same place...

Sometimes I wish I'd got a manual... Maybe once a month. But then I drive down the 405 on a daily basis and am glad I got the auto.

fordguys550 · Jan 17, 2018

Its near malibu.
If i drove in traffic everyday. I would have seriously intertained the AT. Ive driven the 405 plenty of times....it wouldnt be so bad with the stock clutch but the ACT HD vlutch i have is a pain in the ass in traffic

gov cheese · Jan 17, 2018

Fuse said:
I need to try this +25% shift pressure. I kept mine at the default as I don't really understand what you guys mean by "shifts firmly".

You only really need to mess with the tune if you are running the canned SCT tune. If you get say the MPT tune shift firmness is in the tune. The MPT tune firmness of the shift directly correlates with the amount of throttle used. Easy on the gas lighter shifts, the closer to WOT the firmer the shifts.

ChiTownStang26 · Jan 17, 2018

[MENTION=19057]fordguys550[/MENTION]

Wait you have 2-step? MPT offers that?

ctandc72 · Jan 17, 2018

Jared_J said:
In years from 2015 automatic beats manual in every way, performance wise.

Well except for driveline losses.
Two identical cars, manual puts down more power.
Fluid dynamics is a bitch.

Jared_J · Jan 17, 2018

ctandc72 said:
Well except for driveline losses.
Two identical cars, manual puts down more power.
Fluid dynamics is a bitch.

Efficiency loss, solid yes, and there is no way get around from that. But you still gain MPG benefit due to optimized gear shifts for fuel economy.

Power loss, this is really fuzzy. Please do explain.

As I said before:

"Less power to wheels? Let's view this from torque converter mechanism. The tq converter always has torque multiplication if the clutch is unlocked, and equal torque transmission when clutch is locked for controlled slip. There is efficiency loss through Tq converter though, but you gain torque multiplication. If with same wheel speed and multiplied torque, I don't understand how you can get less power.
Only thing I can think of is because the when Tq Cnvt is unlocked, for same engine speed you get less wheel speed. Due to the phase difference on engine hp peak and wheel hp peak, you may see a drop on wheel hp. This is only on dyno for a fixed gear comparison and it's actually biased compare as you can't control same effective transmission ratio.
But in real word, you should have upshifted already and pulled away from the manual car."

Your car accelerates by torque. Power is just one way to quantify the output.

D24112 · Jan 17, 2018

My manual dipstick is longer than your auto dipstick...

ctandc72 · Jan 17, 2018

Jared_J said:
Efficiency loss, solid yes, and there is no way get around from that. But you still gain MPG benefit due to optimized gear shifts for fuel economy.

Power loss, this is really fuzzy. Please do explain.

As I said before:

"Less power to wheels? Let's view this from torque converter mechanism. The tq converter always has torque multiplication if the clutch is unlocked, and equal torque transmission when clutch is locked for controlled slip. There is efficiency loss through Tq converter though, but you gain torque multiplication. If with same wheel speed and multiplied torque, I don't understand how you can get less power.
Only thing I can think of is because the when Tq Cnvt is unlocked, for same engine speed you get less wheel speed. Due to the phase difference on engine hp peak and wheel hp peak, you may see a drop on wheel hp. This is only on dyno for a fixed gear comparison and it's actually biased compare as you can't control same effective transmission ratio.
But in real word, you should have upshifted already and pulled away from the manual car."

Your car accelerates by torque. Power is just one way to quantify the output.

You are forgetting that dyno numbers are garnered in a 1:1 gear. No advantage to either there. The auto simply loses more power putting it to the ground than the manual. Nothing new.

ZZxtra · Jan 17, 2018

Always bought new cars (entry level), replaced them every 4 to 6 years, always with manual transmissions. When I met my wife she was driving a manual trans car (bonus!).

I retired a couple years ago. Have been looking at new Mustangs for 20 years. Last year I decided to buy one. I bought the V6 automatic model mainly because of stop and go traffic and because they've gotten so good performance wise. I'm satisfied with my choice. I'm surprised how hard it shifts in sport mode.

I'm looking to run a 13.9 1/4 mile. I'll be happy with that.

JeffreyDJ · Jan 17, 2018

I’ve only two comments:

1. Buy whichever you’re going to enjoy the most.
2. A stick in traffic is not at all a big deal. It should be second nature for most that have driven it for awhile. If you have medical issues, sure. But for most people, it really shouldn’t be difficult.

Joe B. · Jan 17, 2018

I don't need any more exercise so the auto suits me. I just wish It would go back to auto shifting from paddle shifting in sport mode by holding the upshift paddle like my Caddy, instead of having to move the shift lever back to drive.
Fordguy, beautiful car and vid. "Loose torque convertor" meaning higher stall speed, correct? That will definitely help the launch and trim the e.t.

V6 automatic....was it a mistake?

Jared_J

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ChiTownStang26

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codemanstang

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Tobey

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matteos

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fordguys550

yep..."just" a V6

gov cheese

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ChiTownStang26

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ctandc72

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Jared_J

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D24112

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ctandc72

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ZZxtra

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JeffreyDJ

Jedi

Joe B.

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