2018 EB Rearend feels squirrelly.

Bluemustang · Apr 11, 2018

BmacIL said:
I'd caution going too big on bar, particularly the rear. The car likes more spring and less bar in the back to ensure good, consistent power delivery. A heavy rear bar will lift the inside tire and prevent you from getting power down well. The bars are good for tuning handling balance. Also heavy bars cross-talk from one wheel bumps and can make the car jump around/react to road imperfections in ways that can be undesireable. The FR Track are blue GT350 dampers, monotubes all around. They're excellent.

I second this. I would caution against a large rear bar. I have the BMR bar on the softest setting and am finding it to be too much (inside rear tire coming off the ground). Ideally you want to lean towards slight understeer so you can power more confidently out of corners. A little understeer gives you a safety net. Overt oversteer can be dangerous and unpredictable. It doesn’t take much to get the rear to come around.

Honestly for a street suspension, IMO larger bars are not needed. Stiffer springs to reduce travel and minimize geometry change and soft bars to maintain independence of the suspension. Larger bars will reduce your grip further especially if you don’t need it.

Larger bars will also cause the car to react more to imperfections as Bmac says. I am going through this exact scenario. I am going down in bars to the GT350 setup. If you have soft springs you “get away” with bigger bars but it’s not the combination Id prefer.

Roadway 5.0 · Apr 12, 2018

To each, his own, respectfully. My opinion:

880 rear spring rate (Ultralites)
-2.0 camber rear (yes, I like this)
Full stuff Steeda sway bar (no fear)
Steeda shock mounts (smoothness)

= excellence...

What I like most about having a stiffer rear sway bar than the front (I use the stock PP front bar), is that I can feel the “edge” very well. Before adding the rear bar, I found myself guessing when the car was going to break free. In fact, the S550 may be the most vague RWD car I’ve driven in this aspect (in stock form).

Anyhow, this is the beauty in purchasing adjustable bars. In 20 minutes I can have a rear bar softer than than the PP, a bit stiffer, or a whole lot more stiff.

ForYourOwnGood · Apr 12, 2018

Well I got it all done, the FP shocks and Steeda min drop springs ride like a dream. Still a little shuffle/roll in the rear but like I said a moderately stiffer sway bar back there should fix it - its really apparent with wide rubber like my 305 MPSS.

The car rides nothing like stock now, its firm and controlled but not harsh (I actually found the stock suspension to be spine-jarringly harsh over bumps at highway speed). Very good compromise for the price.

SVO MkII · Apr 18, 2018

Scrambler said:
I've had my EB package 101A for a tad over a month now. I've been doing some spirited driving on the back road twisties and getting use to the handling. I found the limits of the suspension yesterday. I took a sharp curve at 80 and the rearend started to float thus causing some sketchy handling in the middle of the curve. The tires did not break loose and I did not lift in the turn. I throttled through it smoothly. Is this a characteristic of the Ford rear IFS? To be fair; the car handles awesome for what it is. It's worlds ahead of my '95 GT with suspension mods aimed at handling.

Is your car a PP car? If not, the all season tires will squirm a bit more than the summer P-Zeros. Also, the PP cars come with a stiffer rear bar and different shock tuning, which might control this better.

I haven't had my car on a track yet, but I find it to be surprisingly well planted. I'm a long time Porsche owner, so my expectations are pretty high to begin with. I bought the car in late Feb and only drove it a couple of days with the summer P-Zeros, but it felt great with these tires (except when the temps dropped!). I have been running Blizzaks for the last 5-6 weeks, and they are obviously a bit more squirmy than the P-Zeros, given the large amount of sipes in the tread blocks.

Scrambler · Apr 18, 2018

SVO MkII said:
Is your car a PP car? If not, the all season tires will squirm a bit more than the summer P-Zeros. Also, the PP cars come with a stiffer rear bar and different shock tuning, which might control this better.

I haven't had my car on a track yet, but I find it to be surprisingly well planted. I'm a long time Porsche owner, so my expectations are pretty high to begin with. I bought the car in late Feb and only drove it a couple of days with the summer P-Zeros, but it felt great with these tires (except when the temps dropped!). I have been running Blizzaks for the last 5-6 weeks, and they are obviously a bit more squirmy than the P-Zeros, given the large amount of sipes in the tread blocks.

It is package 101A so not a PP car. The tires are Goodyear Eagle F1 All Season. I really can't complain compared to my '95 GT with H&R Race springs and Bilstein shocks/struts. The ride is much nicer in the EB and cornering takes little effort. I didn't realize the PP had different shocks and rear swaybar. Food for thought...Thanks.

NightmareMoon · Apr 18, 2018

Scrambler said:
I've had my EB package 101A for a tad over a month now. I've been doing some spirited driving on the back road twisties and getting use to the handling. I found the limits of the suspension yesterday. I took a sharp curve at 80 and the rearend started to float thus causing some sketchy handling in the middle of the curve. The tires did not break loose and I did not lift in the turn. I throttled through it smoothly. Is this a characteristic of the Ford rear IFS? To be fair; the car handles awesome for what it is. It's worlds ahead of my '95 GT with suspension mods aimed at handling.

The rear doesn't float, either its sliding or its not. "Floating and sketchy handling" ARE the tires breaking loose, just not hopelessly so. You did good by not lifting in that case, but be very careful. If you are near the limit and then add a bit too much steering angle, the car is going to start to come around on you. If the rear does start to slide in a steady corner like that, sometimes a bit more throttle will shift the weight rearward and plant those rear tires down better, but too much throttle and you will ask more than the tires can deliver and its all gone.

Subframe braces aren't bad in any way, but they definitely aren't a cure-all for keeping the rear tires planted.

A stiffer rear swaybar is only going to cause that kind of slide to happen a bit sooner, and with less warning, especially if you're on the stock shocks. In general, but with few exceptions, stiffer = less grip on that end of the car.

Scrambler · Apr 18, 2018

NightmareMoon said:
The rear doesn't float, either its sliding or its not. "Floating and sketchy handling" ARE the tires breaking loose, just not hopelessly so. You did good by not lifting in that case, but be very careful. If you are near the limit and then add a bit too much steering angle, the car is going to start to come around on you. If the rear does start to slide in a steady corner like that, sometimes a bit more throttle will shift the weight rearward and plant those rear tires down better, but too much throttle and you will ask more than the tires can deliver and its all gone.

Subframe braces aren't bad in any way, but they definitely aren't a cure-all for keeping the rear tires planted.

A stiffer rear swaybar is only going to cause that kind of slide to happen a bit sooner, and with less warning, especially if you're on the stock shocks. In general, but with few exceptions, stiffer = less grip on that end of the car.

I mean no disrespect but I would have to disagree. I don't believe the tires are braking loose. I can get the rear of the car to float around at much lower speeds. I can see there being sidewall flex and movement of the cradle on compliant bushings but not sliding. Wiggle the wheel back and forth and you can feel the rear floating around. As far as correcting an EB using throttle; good luck. I can do that with my 347 stroker but not this 4 banger. There's a good video on YouTube where a guy is laying it all out in the turns of a road racing course with an EB. He couldn't brake the rear loose to save his life. Maybe that's why the EB does so well on road courses. Think Miata here.

SVO MkII · Apr 19, 2018

Scrambler said:
I mean no disrespect but I would have to disagree. I don't believe the tires are braking loose. I can get the rear of the car to float around at much lower speeds. I can see there being sidewall flex and movement of the cradle on compliant bushings but not sliding. Wiggle the wheel back and forth and you can feel the rear floating around. As far as correcting an EB using throttle; good luck. I can do that with my 347 stroker but not this 4 banger. There's a good video on YouTube where a guy is laying it all out in the turns of a road racing course with an EB. He couldn't brake the rear loose to save his life. Maybe that's why the EB does so well on road courses. Think Miata here.

Also, no disrespect, but have you tried turning the stability control off? This car makes 350 lb/ft of torque. The 2010 GT 4.6 only made 325 lb/ft. My 2018 EP PP 6sp can easily break the tires loose. It does have the 3.55 gears, vs I believe 3.15s in your car. I'm guessing this might be your first turbo car. Appreciate that it makes power very differently than a normally aspirated engine. It can have a rather severe "on/off" feel as it goes from on boost to no boost.

With respect to the Miata comparison. I have owned a Miata. My car feels NOTHING like a Miata. The Mustang weighs about 1000 lbs more and makes twice the tq. The Mustang EB does feel a lot like my 944 Turbo...which is why I bought it.

NightmareMoon · Apr 19, 2018

i wasnt there to experience your incident, so who knows, but even 100hp Miatas can easily break into an oversteer slide if cornering at the limit and then applying a bit too much throttle without straightening the steering wheel. At the limit of cornering, the rear tires have no available traction left for thrust, its all used for cornering. This is basic traction circle stuff, and I've tracked two different miatas more than a few times, so I know what Im saying.

Scrambler · Apr 19, 2018

SVO MkII said:
Also, no disrespect, but have you tried turning the stability control off? This car makes 350 lb/ft of torque. The 2010 GT 4.6 only made 325 lb/ft. My 2018 EP PP 6sp can easily break the tires loose. It does have the 3.55 gears, vs I believe 3.15s in your car. I'm guessing this might be your first turbo car. Appreciate that it makes power very differently than a normally aspirated engine. It can have a rather severe "on/off" feel as it goes from on boost to no boost.

With respect to the Miata comparison. I have owned a Miata. My car feels NOTHING like a Miata. The Mustang weighs about 1000 lbs more and makes twice the tq. The Mustang EB does feel a lot like my 944 Turbo...which is why I bought it.

I probably could have worded my response better as there seems to be some misunderstanding.

First off. I love my EB. So much so that I'm considering selling my 400 plus rwhp GT. The two cars are night and day. The EB puts a smile on my face and I want to drive it every chance I get. My GT never did that for me.

I know how to turn the nannies off and I was not referring to laying rubber from a stop. I was referring to braking the rear tires loose at a high rate of speed in the middle of a turn. If the rear of the car tries to come around on you; it would be very difficult to throttle out of it on pavement with an EB. My car is an auto so I'm using it for reference. That is if you can even get the rear end loose on a turn without whipping the rear into a spin on purpose. Now drive a GT through tight turns and you can drift it through just using the throttle.

My Miata comparison was in reference to tracking the car. The Miata is one of those cars that you can hold to the wood around a track with less concern of overpowering it. It has been stated via video and posts from racers that the EB is on rails much like a Miata and more throttle can be applied exiting the turns. The EB can be driven more aggressively with less fear of breaking the tires loose using the throttle. Less HP = Less ability to overpower the track. Yes the EB has more power than a Miata, but it's also heavier with larger tires to spin.

I traded in a turbo car for my EB. I'll try to find the video of the EB being tested on a road course.

Scrambler · Apr 19, 2018

NightmareMoon said:
i wasnt there to experience your incident, so who knows, but even 100hp Miatas can easily break into an oversteer slide if cornering at the limit and then applying a bit too much throttle without straightening the steering wheel. At the limit of cornering, the rear tires have no available traction left for thrust, its all used for cornering. This is basic traction circle stuff, and I've tracked two different miatas more than a few times, so I know what Im saying.

I believe you. In my situation; I don't believe that the rear tires broke loose. I just experience this floating feeling whether at high or low speed. It gets worse at speed through a turn.

SVO MkII · Apr 19, 2018

Scrambler said:
I probably could have worded my response better as there seems to be some misunderstanding.

First off. I love my EB. So much so that I'm considering selling my 400 plus rwhp GT. The two cars are night and day. The EB puts a smile on my face and I want to drive it every chance I get. My GT never did that for me.

I know how to turn the nannies off and I was not referring to laying rubber from a stop. I was referring to braking the rear tires loose at a high rate of speed in the middle of a turn. If the rear of the car tries to come around on you; it would be very difficult to throttle out of it on pavement with an EB. My car is an auto so I'm using it for reference. That is if you can even get the rear end loose on a turn without whipping the rear into a spin on purpose. Now drive a GT through tight turns and you can drift it through just using the throttle.

My Miata comparison was in reference to tracking the car. The Miata is one of those cars that you can hold to the wood around a track with less concern of overpowering it. It has been stated via video and posts from racers that the EB is on rails much like a Miata and more throttle can be applied exiting the turns. The EB can be driven more aggressively with less fear of breaking the tires loose using the throttle. Less HP = Less ability to overpower the track. Yes the EB has more power than a Miata, but it's also heavier with larger tires to spin.

I traded in a turbo car for my EB. I'll try to find the video of the EB being tested on a road course.

Again, just trying to help here. But keep in mind, stability control will kick in mid corner if it senses a loss of traction (not just from a dead stop, I'm sure you know that). In my car it is fairly easy to lose traction mid corner if you apply too much power, so the stability control kicks in to catch it (again, maybe this is the effect of the 3.55s).

I have been doing track days for over 20 years with PCA. I have not had a chance to take the EB to the track yet (first track day for it will be Road America, 5/11). To me, the Mustang is a big, heavy car, very different than a Miata. But again, this is just my frame of reference based on driving much lighter cars. Having said that, I am amazed at how well this "big car" handles. I find myself going into corners thinking, "this is too fast, this car can't handle this much speed, it's going to under-steer". But I'm wrong every time. Just turn in and this baby is planted, nice and flat.

This is off topic, but it still amazes me that Ford can make a car that is this much fun to drive as cheaply as they do. It really makes it hard to justify a $60K Cayman (also powered by a turbo four!).

Scrambler · Apr 19, 2018

With a Cobb tune no less. He can't get the rear to rotate but there's plenty of understeer. I have yet to encounter understeer so he is definitely driving harder than I was when the rear felt floaty although our cars differ slightly.

[ame]

Scrambler · Apr 19, 2018

SVO MkII said:
Again, just trying to help here. But keep in mind, stability control will kick in mid corner if it senses a loss of traction (not just from a dead stop, I'm sure you know that). In my car it is fairly easy to lose traction mid corner if you apply too much power, so the stability control kicks in to catch it (again, maybe this is the effect of the 3.55s).

I have been doing track days for over 20 years with PCA. I have not had a chance to take the EB to the track yet (first track day for it will be Road America, 5/11). To me, the Mustang is a big, heavy car, very different than a Miata. But again, this is just my frame of reference based on driving much lighter cars. Having said that, I am amazed at how well this "big car" handles. I find myself going into corners thinking, "this is too fast, this car can't handle this much speed, it's going to under-steer". But I'm wrong every time. Just turn in and this baby is planted, nice and flat.

This is off topic, but it still amazes me that Ford can make a car that is this much fun to drive as cheaply as they do. It really makes it hard to justify a $60K Cayman (also powered by a turbo four!).

I have the lowly 3.15 gears and I don't think it helps. If I nail it mid turn; I just get more speed but no spin. Maybe it's an auto thing? My tires are 235's. I do turn off advancetrac and drive in Sport mode when playing in the twisties. Maybe I have a dud? I only have 1000 miles on the car. Even my 0-60 times are disappointing in Drag mode but it takes a lot of practice. I too can't believe how fast I can take the EB into a corner. The EB is easily the funnest car I've owned.

SVO MkII · Apr 19, 2018

Scrambler said:
With a Cobb tune no less. He can't get the rear to rotate but there's plenty of understeer. I have yet to encounter understeer so he is definitely driving harder than I was when the rear felt floaty although our cars differ slightly.

At 3:20 into the video, he says "Back-end comes around under power. Wouldn't call it drifting, but would call it properly rotating". I would concur.

2018 EB Rearend feels squirrelly.

Bluemustang

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Roadway 5.0

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ForYourOwnGood

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SVO MkII

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