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Spart

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I'm blessed with having a lot of tools. I have the SCT pro racer package to tune the PCM, I have IDS to do things by the (Ford) book, and I have Forscan and AsBuiltExplorer to hack things in the as-builts.

From studying this problem a bit, just out of curiosity, I sincerely doubt that the decision to run the pump is made in the PCM. There are no settings in the SCT Pro Racer package that say anything about controlling a cooler - they're all engine related. That's probably why folks like Lund couldn't make it work either. They can work magic with the engine, but the actual control for the pump is probably in a different module.

I'd be looking hard at the IPC and the BCM.
For anyone who is looking at the BCM, be aware that one chunk of the as-built there is actually the VIN. See here.

I assume the best cars to compare would be a 2016 Base and a 2017 Base?
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JAJ

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I actually tried to give Jesse my money and he was unresponsive for months on end...
Sorry to hear that. I guess it's a YMMV issue.

By the way, does your Mustang Sync3 receive Over The Air updates? Mine is picking them up and my Owner.Ford account shows my 2016 GT350 TP as having Sync3 installed. I upgraded my 2015 Explorer as well, and it won't do anything like this.
 

JAJ

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For anyone who is looking at the BCM, be aware that one chunk of the as-built there is actually the VIN. See here.

I assume the best cars to compare would be a 2016 Base and a 2017 Base?
I'd confine my search to 2016 MY vehicles if you're trying to fix a 2016 problem. Compare all of the 2016 variants - Base 350, TP, Comfort, 350R base and 350R elex. That'll help reject false positives.

This is how I found the cure for the exhaust switch. I don't recall how many I had of the various sets of as-builts, but it was enough. Looking at the files in AsBuiltExplorer, I did bitwise comparisons of three or four versions at one time, looking for bits that were one way in the cars with exhaust switches and the other way in cars without. After pages of searching and note-taking, there were only three or four bits in two modules that passed the test, so I went and loaded them on my car one after the other and tested the switch. Found it on the second try. The same logic applied to the four-way flasher function, so I got it fixed too.
 

Spart

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Sorry to hear that. I guess it's a YMMV issue.

By the way, does your Mustang Sync3 receive Over The Air updates? Mine is picking them up and my Owner.Ford account shows my 2016 GT350 TP as having Sync3 installed. I upgraded my 2015 Explorer as well, and it won't do anything like this.
Haven't had a chance yet, my Sync 3 APIM had 2.2 already installed. There's always the thumb drive method.

I'd confine my search to 2016 MY vehicles if you're trying to fix a 2016 problem. Compare all of the 2016 variants - Base 350, TP, Comfort, 350R base and 350R elex.
I guess my logic was, there'd be less extraneous difference between two cars of the same trim vs. two cars of the same year.

For example, I'm not aware of any significant differences in 2016-17 non-350 cars.
 

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I guess my logic was, there'd be less extraneous difference between two cars of the same trim vs. two cars of the same year.

For example, I'm not aware of any significant differences in 2016-17 non-350 cars.
Then do both. The thing is, there can be differences at the deep level that are invisible at the top level. For instance, Ford changed the working voltage levels of the accelerator pedal between 2016 and 2017 - in 2016 it was 5VDC and in 2017 it was 12VDC. Check out the threads on Auto-blip to see what happened.

So the challenge for evaluating the as-built files year-over-year is that we don't know how many changes to bits in the as-builts came about because of changes like that that we can't see. We don't know, and we'll never know, but it's probably not zero.

If you stay within a single model year, changes like that are minimal, and when they exist they're repeatable across the product line.
 

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Tank

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Shameless request for guidance for the "OEM diff cooler pump operation" research.

We've touched upon some of the forscan stuff in this thread:
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69499

I manually hacked away at it and was able to find these lines of code that were different between a '16 Tech and Track model.https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1614271&postcount=61

I understand the sample size is just one Tech and one Track and I didn't know about AsBuilt Explorer at the time. I feel I could search the web for additional samples but seeing that there's no variation in options intramodel, would this really make a difference? As [MENTION=23125]JAJ[/MENTION] mentioned in his efforts on the sync 3 mod, would it make sense to expand this sample to other S550 models? Wouldn't this just confuse the matter?

Is what you call AsBuilt Explorer the same program offered by compulsivecode?

Any suggestions?

Thanks folks:cheers:
 
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mkonrad

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I’m with JAJ on the differential pump - I don’t believe the answer is in the Asbuilt. Asbuilt works great as a configuration database, but it’s not always necessary. In embeddded programming if you can read a voltage, you can detect a device. For example, on switching from my tech seats to a Sparco, I didn’t find and didn’t need to change the Asbuiltfor seats. Because the climate control box was removed from MS CAN, the system disabled it correctly in the instrument panel, no codes.

Remember the diag line on the pump? I’ve never seen the waveform, but I might use that to detect the pump if I wrote the PCM code.

Here’s the next problem though - we all know the wiring harness doesn’t run all the way back to the pump, being used for stereo and seat config. You may be able to tap in front of the lower body wiring harness. Maybe.

And another problem. What about the part number and strategy for PCM? When I looked over 2016, tech, track, GT350R, and GT350R electronics, it looked like my GT350 tech pack was a different part. I never found good enough values in a 6 car data set to even start experimenting on. It could simply be a different PCM you need.
 

Tank

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I have little doubt that there's a bit somewhere in one of the modules that will turn this function on. Pretty much everything else that's different between the two vehicles has been found, so this challenge will be solved eventually too.
I’m with JAJ on the differential pump - I don’t believe the answer is in the Asbuilt.
Hey Matt, thanks for weighing in. Only commenting on quote above, I thought [MENTION=23125]JAJ[/MENTION] was saying it might be found in the asbuilt....
 

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I wouldn't give up all hope just because the PCM is a different part number. What other differences separate base/track cars?
 

mkonrad

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Hey Matt, thanks for weighing in. Only commenting on quote above, I thought [MENTION=23125]JAJ[/MENTION] was saying it might be found in the asbuilt....
Actually, my fault, I misread. He said not the PCM, but at this point I won’t speak for anyone else again.

I’m sticking to my -guess- of the PCM though, because that’s how I would write it. I’ve been through the BCM looking and found few good candidates, but isolating a bit of configuration data isn’t always obvious, as the last few posts say. I failed when I tried.

*edit. If you want them, I have 2016 tech, 2016 track, 2016 GT350R and 2016 GT350R with electronics Asbuilt files you can try your hand at. If Spart's database doesn't have them.
 
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I wouldn't give up all hope just because the PCM is a different part number. What other differences separate base/track cars?
Thanks [MENTION=25607]Spart[/MENTION]. This is what I came up with on one '16 Tech (no diff pump) and one '16 Track (w diff pump).
 

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Tank

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Actually, my fault, I misread. He said not the PCM, but at this point I won’t speak for anyone else again.

I’m sticking to my -guess- of the PCM though, because that’s how I would write it. I’ve been through the BCM looking and found few good candidates, but isolating a bit of configuration data isn’t always obvious, as the last few posts say. I failed when I tried.

*edit. If you want them, I have 2016 tech, 2016 track, 2016 GT350R and 2016 GT350R with electronics Asbuilt files you can try your hand at. If Spart's database doesn't have them.
It's all good Matt. I'm thinking of doing this to test out possibilities:
1) when it gets non sub freezing in my area, I'm going forward with my diff temp sensor install for the OEM diff temp display.
2) using the info from the diff cooler install thread, I'm going to rig up some sort of volt/amp meter to the connections from the right (passenger)kick panel to mimic signals to the diff pump. I think it was [MENTION=29216]jwb[/MENTION] who said he thought he could have burned out a pump trying to test so I would not want to be going through that...Also, this would make monitoring a lot easier.
3) I'll use this configuration to test out whatever Forscan leads that seem promising.

It would be good to know for sure at what temp the OEM pumps turns on..

Edit: Are any of the "few good candidates" on the pdf I posted in response to Spart's post?
 
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rb92gt

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It's all good Matt. I'm thinking of doing this to test out possibilities:
1) when it gets non sub freezing in my area, I'm going forward with my diff temp sensor install for the OEM diff temp display.
2) using the info from the diff cooler install thread, I'm going to rig up some sort of volt/amp meter to the connections from the right (passenger)kick panel to mimic signals to the diff pump. I think it was [MENTION=29216]jwb[/MENTION] who said he thought he could have burned out a pump trying to test so I would not want to be going through that...Also, this would make monitoring a lot easier.
3) I'll use this configuration to test out whatever Forscan leads that seem promising.

It would be good to know for sure at what temp the OEM pumps turns on..

Edit: Are any of the "few good candidates" on the pdf I posted in response to Spart's post?
Another 2016 Tech/Track on the road! With no pumps running Axle temp consistently 10% less than transmission, range is 0-20% difference with transmission always being hotter than axle. (Axle temp only warmer in this pic because I had the sensor in my house before I installed it in the diff)
Axle Temp.jpg
 
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Tank

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Another 2016 Tech/Track on the road! Axle temp consistently 10% less than transmission, range is 0-20% difference with transmission always being hotter than axle. (Axle temp only warmer in this pic because I had the sensor in my house before I installed it in the diff)
Excellent! Coolers for both? Write up the mods!!

Great stuff ryan :thumbsup:
 

rb92gt

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Excellent! Coolers for both? Write up the mods!!

Great stuff ryan :thumbsup:
Trans cooler done, and already ran switched power wire through a relay to the diff so will be easy to install diff cooler (did this at the same time I installed temp sensor to diff to be efficient). I ran the diff pump power wire along the passenger side of the car and crossed over just behind the rear seats to the grommet where the temp sensor wires run. Here are a few pics. For the C264 connector I decided to just cut wires 4 and 21, and use butt connectors. I left an inch of wire remaining to the connector in case I or someone would ever want to solder them back together. I recommend pulling the white and grey connectors off their attachment point, then disconnect them and pull the black christmas tree style push pin out as well (my index finger is pointing to it in pic) so have enough room to work. I posted a diagram of the wiring for my pumps recently in another post, will post a slightly updated version here soon.

The rear seat base is super easy to remove, in the front center of each rear seat there is a button to press which releases it, then simply pull up and out on the entire rear seat base, it is all one piece. I would recommend NOT removing the plastic armrest area next to the rear seats, they have a million plastic clips that break easily. Simply fish the wire through from one hand to the next as you run wire.

The relays I used for the pumps are just behind the glove box, close the the grommet to pass wires through to the engine compartment.

I used Mocal 17311 pump, a gear driven pump, quieter than diaphragm pumps, and comes with 8AN fittings already installed! I also used OEM cooler and lines, cut the hard lines behind rear of front wheel and used 1/2in hard line to 8AN fittings, where I attached my own lines. Oil flows to cooler first, then pump (so pump sees cooler fluid).

Plan to use same pump for diff, but not sure yet if I need a diff cooler, I want to wait until summer to see the temps the diff gets to. Will probably use OEM cooler and my own 8AN lines for diff, will see.

I just added three more pics, two of brackets that are a little tricky:
One attaches to the bottom of the frame so you do need to remove a few screws from the front underbody shield near the passenger side, but you do not need to remove the entire thing, just enough to get an open end wrench in there to tighten the bolt (included with FP kit). There is already a metal u-nut in place on the frame. (see step 44. in FP Transmission Cooler Instructions- They come with the kit, you can also google them.)

The other one is a bracket included in the kit that isn't even mentioned in the FP instructions, they need to add step 46b. "Install bracket to mount front transmission cooler lines." Then step 47. would make sense as the bracket has a welded bolt that the nut in step 47. attaches to. As above, the metal u nut already exists on our car, use the included bolt to attach the bracket (the bracket can bee seen in my pic below, the bolt cannot be seen, it is at the top of the bracket to the right "around the corner" so to speak.)

The last pic I added is a wiring diagram for everything, to safely put each pump on their own circuit.

BTW, Go Jags!!!! Update- Well Shit... Congrats Jim aka Tank.
C264.jpg
Grommet in.jpg
Grommet out.jpg
Rear Underbody Shield.jpg
Relays.jpg
Bottom of cooler bracket to frame.jpg
Front Cooler tube bracket.jpg
GT350 Cooler Electrical Diagram.jpg
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