Anyone care that a gt500 is coming?

AirBusPilot · Jan 20, 2018

machsmith said:
Is the a10 in the zl1-l1e?
I’m sure it won’t have a problem beating both, hellcat and ZL1 in a drag race.

It’ll need a torque converter to run faster/quicker in the 1/4.

The ZL1 1LE is manual only. Like the GT350. Same mission.

Sorry, just don’t see a DCT in the 500.

machsmith · Jan 20, 2018

AirBusPilot said:
It’ll need a torque converter to run faster/quicker in the 1/4.

The ZL1 1LE is manual only. Like the GT350. Same mission.

Sorry, just don’t see a DCT in the 500.

ford does

Norm Peterson · Jan 20, 2018

AirBusPilot said:
. . . for drag racing, which I assume is the major thrust of this car.

I don't think we even know that much for certain.

What if the GT500 ends up being more of a ZL1/1LE competitor than a H'cat/Demon fighter?

Norm

AirBusPilot · Jan 20, 2018

machsmith said:
ford does

Official Ford link?

Tomster · Jan 20, 2018

Norm Peterson said:
I don't think we even know that much for certain.

What if the GT500 ends up being more of a ZL1/1LE competitor than a H'cat/Demon fighter?

Norm

I think that is exactly what it is.

AirBusPilot · Jan 20, 2018

Norm Peterson said:
I don't think we even know that much for certain.

What if the GT500 ends up being more of a ZL1/1LE competitor than a H'cat/Demon fighter?

Norm

That’s a very tiny market to go after.

Also against the drag oriented tradition of the 500.

I’m not losing any sleep over this, so who knows.

machsmith · Jan 20, 2018

AirBusPilot said:
Official Ford link?

Lol, I’ll be sure to put it right in this thread for you to see when they announce it,

AirBusPilot · Jan 20, 2018

machsmith said:
Lol, I’ll be sure to put it right in this thread for you to see when they announce it,

If you forget, I’ll let you know, lol.

Socalrugger · Jan 20, 2018

Sometimes in a pissing contest, the contestants never run out of piss.....

machsmith · Jan 20, 2018

AirBusPilot said:
If you forget, I’ll let you know, lol.

No problemo, I'll be waiting, in haste.

Socalrugger said:
Sometimes in a pissing contest, the contestants never run out of piss.....

When I'm right, I won't rub it in, I'll just say, told you so and that will be it.

Epiphany · Jan 20, 2018

AirBusPilot said:
I’m not buying it no matter the transmission. But a link to a DCT Trans by tremec doesn’t prove anything, does it? I believe that transmission exists.

However, if Ford is gunning for a ZL1 or Hellcat 1/4 mike time, a DCT won’t cut it.

I get that if you already know that you won't be buying one that whatever it comes with means little to you. And you're right, a simple link to Tremec's site offers nothing in terms of validation.

I see it like this - Ford is very good at giving you the bulk of what you need but leaves room for you to tailor the car as you see fit. In the past you could turn most any Mustang into a drag machine or a very capable corner carver. I don't see the upcoming GT50 as putting all it's eggs in one basket. In other words, you aren't going to see a jacked up knuckle dragger that is hellbent on ruling the streets (of Mexico). Nor will it be a track monster that is geared to only take turns at speed, disregarding everything else. You know this and so do the rest of us. So Ford will most likely strike a balance. If history means anything here, the car won't be as lean as the GT350 (everybody knows the car will be a pig at over 4,000lbs). Thankfully, it will most likely come with the latest generation Magride that will allow it to perform as well or better than many cars that weigh less but will in no way be lean.

I have tried very hard to pry where an opportunity existed and always come away impressed with how professional most everyone involved with the GT500 program with respect to their ability to provide little or no detail. That does not mean that the trail of crumbs doesn't lead anywhere. What stinks is that when you do learn something substantial - you can't share it.

Nothing is cast in stone (especially with the new CEO) and everything is subject to change at any time. At current, it looks like we will be seeing a car that may be able to be equipped to take it in one direction or another. Ford hasn't been the most secretive about their benchmarking be it a ZL1, a Corvette, or a GT3.

I have always found it interesting that Ford was able to get away with only offering one transmission, a manual, in their top dog Mustangs of recent past. Chrysler and General Motors offered both a manual and an automatic. With similar sales numbers, who benefits best? Ford clearly has an opportunity to take advantage of economies of scale with only one choice in the GT350 or the GT500. So I could see Ford doing the same thing with a Mustang model that doesn't offer a manual. Of course some will balk. Heck, many will balk. Yet Ford will sell each and every one of them, dealers will cash in, and Ford will benefit from an economic advantage of the fact that they only offer one transmission choice. One would hope that helps to keep cost under control as much as the hardware we are talking about may be up to 3X (or more) the cost of a transmission such as the TR3160 6-speed, for example.

AirBusPilot said:
...a DCT trans isn’t the best for drag racing, which I assume is the major thrust of this car. Plus, I can think of many more reasons why Ford will use the 10 speed auto..

Again, I think your premise is off as much as the drag community will be overjoyed with the new GT500.

And I don't disagree - you can absolutely make the argument in favor for a 10-speed automatic. Yet I believe Ford and Tremec have worked hard to make the DCT/supercharged 5.2L engine work even better than the 10-speed ever could and that it allows for an higher level of performance than the 10-speed ever could while still allowing pu$$ycat shifts around town.

One of the great opportunities that exists with a dual-clutch transmission is the ability to create brand-specific shift profiles, ranging for imperceptible limousine-like shifts to ferocious "F1"-style shifts. Basically, the feeling of any maneuver depends on the way torque is transferred to the wheels. The Tremec DCT technology opens up an array of custom options.

http://www.tremec.com/anexos/High-Torque%20DCTs_Case.Study.pdf

AirBusPilot said:
Sorry, just don’t see a DCT in the 500.

Free your mind and consider a transmission that allows maximum performance and that while expensive, Ford had the guts to run with. The DCT is that transmission.

AirBusPilot · Jan 21, 2018

Epiphany said:
I get that if you already know that you won't be buying one that whatever it comes with means little to you. And you're right, a simple link to Tremec's site offers nothing in terms of validation.

I see it like this - Ford is very good at giving you the bulk of what you need but leaves room for you to tailor the car as you see fit. In the past you could turn most any Mustang into a drag machine or a very capable corner carver. I don't see the upcoming GT50 as putting all it's eggs in one basket. In other words, you aren't going to see a jacked up knuckle dragger that is hellbent on ruling the streets (of Mexico). Nor will it be a track monster that is geared to only take turns at speed, disregarding everything else. You know this and so do the rest of us. So Ford will most likely strike a balance. If history means anything here, the car won't be as lean as the GT350 (everybody knows the car will be a pig at over 4,000lbs). Thankfully, it will most likely come with the latest generation Magride that will allow it to perform as well or better than many cars that weigh less but will in no way be lean.

I have tried very hard to pry where an opportunity existed and always come away impressed with how professional most everyone involved with the GT500 program with respect to their ability to provide little or no detail. That does not mean that the trail of crumbs doesn't lead anywhere. What stinks is that when you do learn something substantial - you can't share it.

Nothing is cast in stone (especially with the new CEO) and everything is subject to change at any time. At current, it looks like we will be seeing a car that may be able to be equipped to take it in one direction or another. Ford hasn't been the most secretive about their benchmarking be it a ZL1, a Corvette, or a GT3.

I have always found it interesting that Ford was able to get away with only offering one transmission, a manual, in their top dog Mustangs of recent past. Chrysler and General Motors offered both a manual and an automatic. With similar sales numbers, who benefits best? Ford clearly has an opportunity to take advantage of economies of scale with only one choice in the GT350 or the GT500. So I could see Ford doing the same thing with a Mustang model that doesn't offer a manual. Of course some will balk. Heck, many will balk. Yet Ford will sell each and every one of them, dealers will cash in, and Ford will benefit from an economic advantage of the fact that they only offer one transmission choice. One would hope that helps to keep cost under control as much as the hardware we are talking about may be up to 3X (or more) the cost of a transmission such as the TR3160 6-speed, for example.

Again, I think your premise is off as much as the drag community will be overjoyed with the new GT500.

And I don't disagree - you can absolutely make the argument in favor for a 10-speed automatic. Yet I believe Ford and Tremec have worked hard to make the DCT/supercharged 5.2L engine work even better than the 10-speed ever could and that it allows for an higher level of performance than the 10-speed ever could while still allowing pu$$ycat shifts around town.

http://www.tremec.com/anexos/High-Torque%20DCTs_Case.Study.pdf

Free your mind and consider a transmission that allows maximum performance and that while expensive, Ford had the guts to run with. The DCT is that transmission.

Good points.

This same automotive “news” outlet predicted a DCT a couple of months ago, yet their latest update switched the prediction to the 10 speed auto.

https://www.motor1.com/news/225789/2019-shelby-gt500-200-mph/

I personally believe a DCT would cost the car time in the 1/4 mile. If so, it would be sUbstantailly slower than it’s two main competitors. However, with a 10 speed auto, it would be as quick, or quicker. There are just too many pitfalls associated with a DCT, which would already be at it torque limit with the predator engine (using the max torque rating provided by the tremec link above).

If you’re right, I’ll be shocked.

Norm Peterson · Jan 21, 2018

Epiphany said:
I get that if you already know that you won't be buying one that whatever it comes with means little to you. And you're right, a simple link to Tremec's site offers nothing in terms of validation.

I posted the Tremec links mostly in response to ABP's implication that the $millions Ford has in the 10A takes the DCT off the table entirely. If it proves anything, it's that Ford would not be on the hook for DCT development costs other than any money that they might have already fronted for it.

Personally, I'm no further than on the fence about living with a DCT under the full range of driving from easy street to personal-best laps on track. And I'd still prefer it to work with a +/- shift lever gate than paddles, same way I'd want to operate the 10A if I ever had to end up with one of those.

Norm

SVTSNAKE351 · Jan 21, 2018

AirBusPilot said:
Good points.

This same automotive “news” outlet predicted a DCT a couple of months ago, yet their latest update switched the prediction to the 10 speed auto.

https://www.motor1.com/news/225789/2019-shelby-gt500-200-mph/

I personally believe a DCT would cost the car time in the 1/4 mile. If so, it would be sUbstantailly slower than it’s two main competitors. However, with a 10 speed auto, it would be as quick, or quicker. There are just too many pitfalls associated with a DCT, which would already be at it torque limit with the predator engine (using the max torque rating provided by the tremec link above).

If you’re right, I’ll be shocked.

You have made some good points.i would say this,why cant there be a 6 or 7 speed manual or a DCT and 10 speed offering?To me that would cover ALL levels of performance:ford:

Epiphany · Jan 21, 2018

Cost.

Anyone care that a gt500 is coming?

AirBusPilot

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machsmith

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Norm Peterson

corner barstool sitter

AirBusPilot

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Tomster

Beware of idiots

AirBusPilot

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machsmith

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AirBusPilot

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Socalrugger

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machsmith

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Epiphany

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AirBusPilot

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Norm Peterson

corner barstool sitter

SVTSNAKE351

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Epiphany

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