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Road and Track Article on the PP2 - It's not a track car

Kevin08

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Throw enough money at a Pinto and you can beat a 1le. One cannot buy a Base GT and beat a 1le for the $8500 (or less) that the PP2 costs. It's just too much money to bring it up to that performance level, too much work and too many parts.
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...but the PP2 can't beat the 1LE so using the $8500 difference between a base GT and a 301A PP2 as the benchmark to 'beat' a 1LE isn't really valid. I *think* he was saying you would come out ahead of the cost of a 1LE.


I'm sure one can spend $8500 on parts for a base GT to beat a PP2 on the track. A 1LE? That might be a bit more.

Figure about $3000 on a good set of wheels and tires (and the wheels will no doubt be much lighter than the PP2)
About $1k on the PP brakes, or less if you get lucky like several have
Maybe $2k on suspension, if that? FR3 track shocks/struts for ~$580, good springs for ~$220, steeda shock mounts for $200, sway bar upgrade maybe $300, cradle lockout kit $220, PP1 STB/cowl brace/K-brace is sub $400. That's just under $2k and is likely beefier than the PP2 suspension. Still have $2,500 to play with, of which you can use to do the 3.73 torsen conversion if you really want to, add coolers, etc.
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Hack

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See the link I posted, FRPP designed and makes a trans cooler for the S550 MT82. The just decided not to include it on the PP2, likely because (as you stated) the diff is going to overheat before the transmission.
Are you calling that scoop a trans cooler? :) Maybe it will help on the PP2, being it makes less power and has fewer aero panels under the car, and the MT-82 has more cooling fins and a thicker, heavier case than the Tremec box, but a number of GT350 owners have tried a similar scoop design without much success. It's certainly not sufficient to allow you to push the car hard for an extended amount of time.

I agree the diff could get hot first. For the GT350 the transmission got hot first, but with the motor spinning to a much lower RPM and making significantly less power you might not have the same issues on a PP2 car. Bottom line is for a fun track day that won't be cut short, you need both coolers.

For a real cooler on the transmission you need lines to attach to the transmission and go to a radiator, and there are no provisions for those lines on the MT-82. For a home job you could theoretically use the drain and fill holes, but that isn't an OEM level solution.
 

mustang1

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... For a real cooler on the transmission you need lines to attach to the transmission and go to a radiator, and there are no provisions for those lines on the MT-82.
that was my guess. They could have borrowed the Tremec but that is definitely GT350 territory.
 

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Throw enough money at a Pinto and you can beat a 1le. One cannot buy a Base GT and beat a 1le for the $8500 (or less) that the PP2 costs. It's just too much money to bring it up to that performance level, too much work and too many parts.

Chevy has done great with the Camaro and it's pricing, and Ford has fucked everything up since new management came to Dearborn.
LOL. You sure can beat the 1LE (w/ a base GT) for less then $8500, much less. Source your parts smartly, reduce the weight and your styling.
 

nastang87xx

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that was my guess. They could have borrowed the Tremec but that is definitely GT350 territory.
It's not compatible. Input shaft of the TR3160 won't support the Coyote flywheel and clutch assembly. But even more so the PP2 and PP1 are still GT level cars and like it or not, from a packaging stand point, it doesn't make sense to convert an entire driveline for an unknown number of orders that the PP2 may or may not bring.
 

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Find this funny. All the want ta be Ricky Road racers are now offended their PP2 is missing a couple parts to make track ready. Pay to play Peeps!
 

millhouse

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Are you calling that scoop a trans cooler? :) Maybe it will help on the PP2, being it makes less power and has fewer aero panels under the car, and the MT-82 has more cooling fins and a thicker, heavier case than the Tremec box, but a number of GT350 owners have tried a similar scoop design without much success. It's certainly not sufficient to allow you to push the car hard for an extended amount of time.

I agree the diff could get hot first. For the GT350 the transmission got hot first, but with the motor spinning to a much lower RPM and making significantly less power you might not have the same issues on a PP2 car. Bottom line is for a fun track day that won't be cut short, you need both coolers.

For a real cooler on the transmission you need lines to attach to the transmission and go to a radiator, and there are no provisions for those lines on the MT-82. For a home job you could theoretically use the drain and fill holes, but that isn't an OEM level solution.
It was proven to work on the Boss302 LS very well (consistent 20 degree drops). Keep in mind, the MT82 has cooling fins on the bottom of the transmission (which GREATLY aids heat transfer) unlike the Tremec 3160. Take the heatsink off of your computers CPU (but leave the fan) and see what happens.
 

nastang87xx

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I have the PP2

I have been tracking the car at Motorsports Ranch south of Fort Worth Texas. The summer here is hot. I have run 20 minutes sessions and never went into limp mode.
I was literally about to ask if anyone has any real reason to have these coolers. And the only reason would be if someone has hit limp mode yet. Thank you for being a practical person with real world experience.

Don't fix what isn't broken. If you run a 20 minute session and you go into limp mode, then address it. If not, why worry?
 

Norm Peterson

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And someone is going to say "yea, but I don't want to pay that fancy stuff." To which I reply, a 7-8" display with Carplay and Android Auto isn't "fancy stuff" that you have to pay for in 2018. It's cheap commodity electronics that I can get from Crutchfield for a couple hundred bucks, and costs Ford even less.
I wouldn't want most of the 301A stuff on my car, PP2 or otherwise.

Even if you paid me more than the option package cost to have it put there, I still wouldn't want it. I just don't have any use for SYNC (any version), Sirius, ambient lighting, or 3 more speakers, and at best limited use for the dual-zone HVAC. It's not about whether those items could be considered "fancy stuff" or not, it's about not having to have something you're not going to want or ever use.

What's wrong with having a car that has only the features you will use?


Norm
 
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bluebeastsrt

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I have the PP2

I have been tracking the car at Motorsports Ranch south of Fort Worth Texas. The summer here is hot. I have run 20 minutes sessions and never went into limp mode.
That's cool. Got any video of the runs? That would put a drop of the road course guys anxiety down to expectable levels.:D Texas is Africa hot. So if it doesn't over heat there. It shouldn't anywhere else.
 

2018OFPP1?2

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That's not a trans cooler. Spend much time on Track Mustangs Online and you'll find plenty who've tried that without success. The fact is that Ford screwed up. As much as I don't like deriding former colleagues, they did. I get why it wasn't on the PP1. It actually makes good sense. But the whole point of the PP2 is to be a real track pack on the GT. I could easily build my car into a more competent track car than the PP2 for less too. That's not the point and if you're still arguing it, you're missing it.

Oh and protecting the GT350 isn't a good argument either. If it can't stand on its own (and it does/would), then they need to up its ante as well. It seems they did that for 2019MY quite well.
And who's doing the dynamic control, epas, and MR tuning for you? And how much is that going to cost? You seem to be forgetting, the PP2 is an engineered package, from the electronics down, not just a bunch of parts bolted to the car.

Where did Ford ever say the PP2 was intended to be a full on track car? I think everyone expected it to be, and then got by butt hurt when it wasn't. And to what end? Bragging rights? We all know the vast majority of these cars (350/r, PP2, 1le) are never gonna see a track. Let's face it, no one's garage opens onto a race track. These are street cars. All those cars that never see the track are dragging around all those extra parts for what? So the owner can say they paid for something they will never use?

As a mustang fan, looking to buy a new mustang, and maybe someday take it to the track, I think the PP2 is an awesome choice. If it needs coolers, I'll add coolers. For that to be the deal breaker is just absurd. If this is your position, are you also disappointed it doesn't come with racing harnesses? Or a cage? Where does it end?

I still believe the PP2 is the best GT car you can get for ~$50k. If it needs a couple thousand dollars in mods to be a track weapon, so what?
 

2018OFPP1?2

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I wouldn't want most of the 301A stuff on my car, PP2 or otherwise.

Even if you paid me more than the option package cost to have it put there, I still wouldn't want it. I just don't have any use for SYNC (any version), Sirius, ambient lighting, or 3 more speakers, and at best limited use for the dual-zone HVAC. It's not about whether those items could be considered "fancy stuff" or not, it's about not having to have something you're not going to want or ever use.

What's wrong with having a car that has only the features you will use?


Norm
Mine does, and I do. ;)
 

Hack

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I have the PP2

I have been tracking the car at Motorsports Ranch south of Fort Worth Texas. The summer here is hot. I have run 20 minutes sessions and never went into limp mode.
It was proven to work on the Boss302 LS very well (consistent 20 degree drops). Keep in mind, the MT82 has cooling fins on the bottom of the transmission (which GREATLY aids heat transfer) unlike the Tremec 3160. Take the heatsink off of your computers CPU (but leave the fan) and see what happens.
That is good - so possibly only a diff cooler and that scoop you showed is needed for some tracks or certain driver styles. I'm pretty surprised that [MENTION=12566]DeltaMobile[/MENTION] can get by without a diff cooler. From what I've heard most IRS Mustang diffs will get hot at the road course in short order. I know mine did before I added the cooler.
 

millhouse

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Are you calling that scoop a trans cooler? :) Maybe it will help on the PP2, being it makes less power and has fewer aero panels under the car, and the MT-82 has more cooling fins and a thicker, heavier case than the Tremec box, but a number of GT350 owners have tried a similar scoop design without much success. It's certainly not sufficient to allow you to push the car hard for an extended amount of time.

I agree the diff could get hot first. For the GT350 the transmission got hot first, but with the motor spinning to a much lower RPM and making significantly less power you might not have the same issues on a PP2 car. Bottom line is for a fun track day that won't be cut short, you need both coolers.

For a real cooler on the transmission you need lines to attach to the transmission and go to a radiator, and there are no provisions for those lines on the MT-82. For a home job you could theoretically use the drain and fill holes, but that isn't an OEM level solution.
That is good - so possibly only a diff cooler and that scoop you showed is needed for some tracks or certain driver styles. I'm pretty surprised that [MENTION=12566]DeltaMobile[/MENTION] can get by without a diff cooler. From what I've heard most IRS Mustang diffs will get hot at the road course in short order. I know mine did before I added the cooler.
:thumbsup:

That cooler "should" work quite well (passes the eye test and has proven to work in the past). As I said, about $1200 should be what it takes to bring the PP2 up to snuff on most tracks on most days.
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