TheLion
Well-Known Member
- Thread starter
- #1
I did a bit of digging and only found a few people who tried a 2nd gear launch back on the S197's, they never really worked to find the sweet spot however and only tried it one or two times. Why 2nd? Because you can't put down the power in first. That means your wasting time. You want to use as much of the engine's available power as you can. Yes, it's easier to slip the clutch more precisely in first, but it's so darn low your wasting time.
It's winter here, so I can't exactly try this out other than on normal streets under low power, but I'm dying to try it. Here's why I even ask:
2016+ Camaro SS runs a 2.66 first gear and 3.73 final drive. PP 6MT's like mine run a 3.657 1st gear but a 2.43 2nd gear (3.73 final drive). 2.43 2nd is DARN CLOSE to a 2.66 first in the SS. It's almost like GM shifted the entire gear ratio set one place back. Vett's are geared the same way. Yes, it' makes them difficult as daily drivers and finnicky to launch, but it seems that if you do it right, your solid gold.
By the way, did you know the Gen 2 Coyote actually makes about the same power as the LS 6.2L? It's all about area under the curve, peak numbers don't matter. LS does it over a shorter RPM range, but the engineer in me got the best of my curiosity and I was just dying to see if the SS's run faster because they make more power or if they are simply using it more efficiently. So I integrated the power curve of similar dyno runs (temp, humidity, both on DynoJet's which are specked for 1% accuracy, SAE corrected) for SS's and the GT's. The results surprised me (but not really once you think about it logically).
Stock Gen 2 5.0 makes about 1~2% more power from 2500 RPM to 7k than the LS does from 2500 to 6500. Power output of the two engines below 2500 is less than 150 hp and the gap closes fast, so there's no point in calculating that small difference, hence why I used 2500 RPM and up. Just two different ways to get there. The gen 6 SS's run a best of 12.1 for 6MT and 11.9 for A8's (bone stock) that I've seen on their fast list. So how are they running faster if the don't actually make more power? Efficiency of application! Aka what Ford did with the 2018 GT 10A. They run high 11's bone stock on street tires consistently because they maximized not just the power band of the engine, but through gearing, shift points, suspension tuning etc. Yes it's an auto, but it proves my point.
Fastest bone stock GT 6MT I've seen is 12.5, 4/10th's of a second slower than the fastest SS that makes nearly identical power. Obviously track prep and DA play a big role, the IRS on the GT is also problematic for drag, GM did a better job there as well from the factory. But I'm wondering if the gearing is the biggest piece of the puzzle here. The GT's time's are much closer together on the fast list, where the SS's times are more spread out (slowest to fastest). A 2.66 1st is probably not easy to launch for the 6MT, but worth it if you can nail it.
2.430 is pretty darn close to 2.660. Both cars have a final drive of 3.73 and roll-out of the tires is within 0.2 inches of each other (27.7 for GT and 27.5 for SS), so your final ratio is pretty darn close.
Yah, you'll need to ride the clutch hard and for a little longer as well as launch at a higher RPM, I'm thinking 3500ish, but you'd have 1 less shift AND you can utilize more of the engine's power over the run. Anyone try it on street tires though? I may have to spend a day trying it to see if I can figure out a working technique once I'm firmly into spring, but you southern state guys are lucky in that regard!
It's winter here, so I can't exactly try this out other than on normal streets under low power, but I'm dying to try it. Here's why I even ask:
2016+ Camaro SS runs a 2.66 first gear and 3.73 final drive. PP 6MT's like mine run a 3.657 1st gear but a 2.43 2nd gear (3.73 final drive). 2.43 2nd is DARN CLOSE to a 2.66 first in the SS. It's almost like GM shifted the entire gear ratio set one place back. Vett's are geared the same way. Yes, it' makes them difficult as daily drivers and finnicky to launch, but it seems that if you do it right, your solid gold.
By the way, did you know the Gen 2 Coyote actually makes about the same power as the LS 6.2L? It's all about area under the curve, peak numbers don't matter. LS does it over a shorter RPM range, but the engineer in me got the best of my curiosity and I was just dying to see if the SS's run faster because they make more power or if they are simply using it more efficiently. So I integrated the power curve of similar dyno runs (temp, humidity, both on DynoJet's which are specked for 1% accuracy, SAE corrected) for SS's and the GT's. The results surprised me (but not really once you think about it logically).
Stock Gen 2 5.0 makes about 1~2% more power from 2500 RPM to 7k than the LS does from 2500 to 6500. Power output of the two engines below 2500 is less than 150 hp and the gap closes fast, so there's no point in calculating that small difference, hence why I used 2500 RPM and up. Just two different ways to get there. The gen 6 SS's run a best of 12.1 for 6MT and 11.9 for A8's (bone stock) that I've seen on their fast list. So how are they running faster if the don't actually make more power? Efficiency of application! Aka what Ford did with the 2018 GT 10A. They run high 11's bone stock on street tires consistently because they maximized not just the power band of the engine, but through gearing, shift points, suspension tuning etc. Yes it's an auto, but it proves my point.
Fastest bone stock GT 6MT I've seen is 12.5, 4/10th's of a second slower than the fastest SS that makes nearly identical power. Obviously track prep and DA play a big role, the IRS on the GT is also problematic for drag, GM did a better job there as well from the factory. But I'm wondering if the gearing is the biggest piece of the puzzle here. The GT's time's are much closer together on the fast list, where the SS's times are more spread out (slowest to fastest). A 2.66 1st is probably not easy to launch for the 6MT, but worth it if you can nail it.
2.430 is pretty darn close to 2.660. Both cars have a final drive of 3.73 and roll-out of the tires is within 0.2 inches of each other (27.7 for GT and 27.5 for SS), so your final ratio is pretty darn close.
Yah, you'll need to ride the clutch hard and for a little longer as well as launch at a higher RPM, I'm thinking 3500ish, but you'd have 1 less shift AND you can utilize more of the engine's power over the run. Anyone try it on street tires though? I may have to spend a day trying it to see if I can figure out a working technique once I'm firmly into spring, but you southern state guys are lucky in that regard!
Sponsored
Last edited:
