Best Oil and Filter for my Engine?

Turbong · Mar 13, 2018

TorqueMan said:
Yes, I'm making some assumptions, but based on evidence and reason, not just hunches.

For example (and in addition to all the other assumptions I've posted on this thread) I assume that any oil meeting the dexos 1 Gen 2 standard will outperform Ford's WSS specification owing to the fact that there are any number of conventional oils, including one from Valvoline, that meet the WSS specification, while all oils meeting the dexos 1 Gen 2 standard are synthetic or synthetic blends.

Would you choose Valvoline Daily Protection 5W-30 over Supertech full-synthetic 5W-30 simply because the Valvoline product meets the recommended Ford spec?

First of all the comparison is non nonsensical since we are talking about full synthetic oils, conventional oil although within their spec is not for this application since it requires at least synthetic blend and I'm quite sure you would need a rebuild and be denied for running the wrong oil class(I have read a story like that with Ford). I do get your point though the test is not difficult to achieve that and it could be Valvoline makes excellent conventional oil. I mean they do offer warranties for using their oils although marketing mostly it does show they are very confident in their products. However it looks like a requirement for Ford specs so as far as I'm concerned I will pay a few bucks each oil change to not worry about that non sense, the risk being high vs reward so low it's a dumb bet to save what 7$ bucks every six months? That's not even enough for a meal for one person.

TorqueMan · Mar 13, 2018

Turbong said:
First of all the comparison is non nonsensical since we are talking about full synthetic oils, conventional oil although within their spec is not for this application since it requires at least synthetic blend...

On what do you base this claim? Check page 280, Capacities and Specifications where it clearly states Motorcraft semi-synthetic oil is "recommended," not required. The only statement in the manual about oil and warranty says nothing about conventional vs synthetic; it warns against using an oil that fails to meet "the defined specification and viscosity grade" (pg 282). As far as I know Ford's WSS-M2C946-A doesn't differentiate between conventional and synthetic oils, therefore Valvoline's conventional oil meets warranty requirements. As always though, I'm happy to be proven wrong. If you are saying you believe synthetic or semi-synthetic oils will perform better in Ford's 2.3L Ecoboost then we are in agreement, but a strict reading of the owner's manual makes clear there is no warranty requirement to use them.

Turbong said:
...and I'm quite sure you would need a rebuild and be denied for running the wrong oil class...

Have you made an assumption here? I'm shocked. Shocked, I say! :brokenheart:

Turbong said:
(I have read a story like that with Ford).

I would be very interested to read about this. Please share a link.

Turbong said:
I do get your point though the test is not difficult to achieve that and it could be Valvoline makes excellent conventional oil. I mean they do offer warranties for using their oils although marketing mostly it does show they are very confident in their products.

Prepare yourself; I'm about to make another assumption. I'm fairly certain the very worst performing dexos-certified synthetic oil will outperform even the very best performing conventional Valvoline oil in every category that matters to us both, but I could be wrong.

Turbong said:
However it looks like a requirement for Ford specs so as far as I'm concerned I will pay a few bucks each oil change to not worry about that non sense, the risk being high vs reward so low it's a dumb bet to save what 7$ bucks every six months? That's not even enough for a meal for one person.

Uh, uh, uh. 25-17=8, so I save a bit more than $8 each oil change (since you actually need 6 qts).

I'll make you a deal. If I'm ever denied a warranty claim based on the fact that I use Supertech's dexos-certified oil instead of Ford's recommended oil I'll buy you all the beer (or other adult beverage of your choice) you can buy with $96, which is what I save by using Supertech instead of Valvoline over the course of 12 oil changes (every 5k during the 60k warranty). In the meantime—at least based on my wife's shopping logic—I get a free six-pack of my favorite pale ale every time I change the oil in my car. Mmmmmm, tasty! :cheers:

BTW, there aren't that many oil manufacturers in the US. Much of what you see on the shelves is the same oil in different containers. Supertech's full synthetic 5W-30 currently comes from Citgo (it has been other manufacturers in the past), and Citgo claims its Supergard full synthetic 5W-30 "provides excellent performance where Ford WSS-M2C946-A is referenced." In other words, they are saying (oh boy, another assumption) this oil meets Ford's WSS spec, but they didn't want to go to the expense of running Ford's tests since the other standards it meets (ILSAC GF-5 and dexos1 Gen 2 spec) demonstrate the oil can meet or exceed the requirements of Ford's spec, and/or they simply didn't want to pay Ford to put the spec on their label.

Turbong · Mar 13, 2018

TorqueMan said:
On what do you base this claim? Check page 280, Capacities and Specifications where it clearly states Motorcraft semi-synthetic oil is "recommended," not required. The only statement in the manual about oil and warranty says nothing about conventional vs synthetic; it warns against using an oil that fails to meet "the defined specification and viscosity grade" (pg 282). As far as I know Ford's WSS-M2C946-A doesn't differentiate between conventional and synthetic oils, therefore Valvoline's conventional oil meets warranty requirements. As always though, I'm happy to be proven wrong. If you are saying you believe synthetic or semi-synthetic oils will perform better in Ford's 2.3L Ecoboost then we are in agreement, but a strict reading of the owner's manual makes clear there is no warranty requirement to use them.

It's self explanatory actually the API class, the weight, the WSS is all part of the oil requirement specifications. Thank you for confirming and answering your own question that it is requirement, after reading the Daily protection data sheet this new formula is actually made of a "premium quality synthetic-blend base stock", which explains why it passed the test and acquired the Ford specification which means this oil with the correct weight and WSS spec is a usable and warrant-able alternative to, You guessed it the motorcraft SynBlend 5w-30. Thanks for clearing that up.

TorqueMan said:
Have you made an assumption here? I'm shocked. Shocked, I say!

The only one making assumptions is you by risking thousands of dollars to save 20 bucks year?

I would be very interested to read about this. Please share

https://www.autoblog.com/2010/12/28/5-things-will-void-car-warranty/

This is for the Taurus out of the manual
"To protect your engine and engine’s warranty, use Motorcraft SAE 5W-20
or an equivalent SAE 5W-20 oil meeting Ford specification
WSS-M2C930-A"

I think this pretty much sums this up , case closed.

Brian V · Mar 13, 2018

My hairs are splitting and you 2 have to come up with a certified by me charging you 2 to get rid of said split hairs on me hairy head because I deem you both to be choosing to be obsessively , compulsively and disorderly on purpose splitting me hairs !

KV Racing · Mar 13, 2018

TorqueMan said:
BTW, there aren't that many oil manufacturers in the US. Much of what you see on the shelves is the same oil in different containers. Supertech's full synthetic 5W-30 currently comes from Citgo (it has been other manufacturers in the past).....

I know not all that long ago that Valvoline was bottling Napa's house brand oil. Not sure who is doing it now or if it still comes from Valvoline, but I ran plenty of their synthetic oil in my racecar a couple of years ago and the bearings looked just as good as when I was running "name brand" synthetic oil that cost a lot more.

Brian V · Mar 13, 2018

Dated Mar. 6 th 2018

Valvoline announces Low -Speed Pre-Igmition Motor oil across portfolio .......................................................................................................................................................

TorqueMan · Mar 14, 2018

Turbong said:
Thank you for confirming and answering your own question that it is requirement, after reading the Daily protection data sheet this new formula is actually made of a "premium quality synthetic-blend base stock", which explains why it passed the test and acquired the Ford specification which means this oil with the correct weight and WSS spec is a usable and warrant-able alternative to, You guessed it the motorcraft SynBlend 5w-30. Thanks for clearing that up.

I'm in agreement with our critics who suggest the hairs on this subject are already fine enough, but this point needs clarification. Let's not further confuse people who are already confused about this issue.

Thank you for pointing out my error in not reading the entire spec sheet I linked to; I wish you would have done the same before making your post. On this sheet Valvoline claims compliance with API SN+, which is a yet-to-be released standard. The datasheet I linked to is supposed to be for "Valvoline Daily Protection Conventional Motor Oil" (you can find the link to the data sheet on that page). Valvoline must be reformulating ALL of its oils with synthetic stocks, which will likely be required to meet this UPCOMING standard. Obviously, it jumped the gun with data sheets on its website.

Nevertheless, here are three 5W-30 conventional oils that meet Ford's recommended WSS-M2C946-A spec:

Pennzoil
Quaker State Advanced Durability
Mobil Super 5000 (scroll down and click the 5W-30 tab)

So I'll ask you again: Would you choose any of those oils over Supertech's full-synthetic simply because they meet Ford's WSS spec?

I would expect other oil manufacturers to begin updating their conventional oils to meet the
API SN Plus standard as soon as it's released--the need for synthetic base stock to meet the standard could be the reason for the delay in releasing it. Fully conventional motor oils may very well become a thing of the past as more and more auto manufacturers default to small-displacement, turbocharged engines requiring LSPI protection.

Turbong said:
https://www.autoblog.com/2010/12/28/5-things-will-void-car-warranty/

This is for the Taurus out of the manual
"To protect your engine and engine’s warranty, use Motorcraft SAE 5W-20
or an equivalent SAE 5W-20 oil meeting Ford specification
WSS-M2C930-A"

This case is not exemplary of our discussion and you know it. This was not a case of using an API-certified oil of the proper weight and grade whose performance on a particular manufacturer specification hasn't been confirmed. This is an idiot who used a straight 30-weight oil in an application that required a 5W-20 multi-weight oil. That engine was likely oil-starved for the first five minutes of every cold startup. The fact that he actually told the dealer where he took it for the warranty claim that he used a straight 30-weight oil further confirms his idiocy.

Turbong said:
I think this pretty much sums this up , case closed.

Yeah, you really did your homework on this one Mr. Darrow. :thumbsup:

I will make you a bet. You will never find an example of a warranty denial attributed to a failure to use an oil meeting the manufacturer's specification where the operator was using an API-certified oil of the proper grade. Why? Because you will never find an engine failure attributable to oil under those circumstances.

But, as others have noted, my hair is thin enough. If anyone has a specific question on this subject (how could there be any at this point!?) I'll be happy to answer. Otherwise, I give Mr. Darrow the last word.

TorqueMan · Mar 14, 2018

Brian V said:
Dated Mar. 6 th 2018

Valvoline announces Low -Speed Pre-Igmition Motor oil across portfolio .......................................................................................................................................................

Welp, there you have it. Here's the link for those interested.

Clearly, Valvoline jumped the gun on claiming compliance with the yet-to-be released API SN Plus standard on their spec sheets.

Turbong · Mar 14, 2018

TorqueMan said:
Thank you for pointing out my error in not reading the entire spec sheet I linked to; I wish you would have done the same before making your post. On this sheet Valvoline claims compliance with API SN+, which is a yet-to-be released standard. The datasheet I linked to is supposed to be for "Valvoline Daily Protection Conventional Motor Oil" (you can find the link to the data sheet on that page). Valvoline must be reformulating ALL of its oils with synthetic stocks, which will likely be required to meet this UPCOMING standard. Obviously, it jumped the gun with data sheets on its website.

Nevertheless, here are three 5W-30 conventional oils that meet Ford's recommended WSS-M2C946-A spec:

Pennzoil

Quaker State Advanced Durability

Mobil Super 5000 (scroll down and click the 5W-30 tab)

So I'll ask you again: Would you choose any of those oils over Supertech's full-synthetic simply because they meet Ford's WSS spec?

This is all a learning experience as new information comes to light, however the evidence is still solid and coincides with the ford spec WSS weather you agree with it or not should not be detrimental to facts on paper. Although you still insist on comparing a base conventional oil that meets ford spec to your walmart fullsyn brand that doesn't makes no sense at all there are fullsyn counterparts that do meet ford spec why cherry pick options? No logic, were comparing two fullsyn oils which one does have ford spec. Would I choose to run those nonsyn oils my answer is obviously not, would I run the supertech that doesn't have ford spec? Obviously not, there are fullsyn options that do. This is just an issue about you being cheap for a lack of nicer a word, since it does not conform to your decision you are making unnecessary assumptions to fit your needs.

TorqueMan said:
I would expect other oil manufacturers to begin updating their conventional oils to meet the
API SN Plus standard as soon as it's released--the need for synthetic base stock to meet the standard could be the reason for the delay in releasing it. Fully conventional motor oils may very well become a thing of the past as more and more auto manufacturers default to small-displacement, turbocharged engines requiring LSPI protection.

That maybe, for all we know they may have already switched to making synblend base oils and not announced it yet, we don't know, doesn't matter in this particular discussion, no one here is going to be buying those over fullsyn oils anyway, can these "conventional oils" you listed be used? if you like, as long as it meets the spec you can according to ford. It appears either way I was wrong about requiring synblend anyway, here is info straight from the owners manual,

"Use of synthetic or synthetic blend motor
oil is not mandatory. Only use fluid that
meets Ford specifications"

However like mentioned before as long as you use a counterpart that meets ford specs it then there is no problem.

TorqueMan said:
This case is not exemplary of our discussion and you know it. This was not a case of using an API-certified oil of the proper weight and grade whose performance on a particular manufacturer specification hasn't been confirmed. This is an idiot who used a straight 30-weight oil in an application that required a 5W-20 multi-weight oil. That engine was likely oil-starved for the first five minutes of every cold startup. The fact that he actually told the dealer where he took it for the warranty claim that he used a straight 30-weight oil further confirms his idiocy.

It is an excellent example IL post it again what is so hard about the text written?, the point is he failed to follow the one of the oil specifications and got nailed for it, the 30 was out of Fords spec that I posted straight up read fords specs that were as plain as day which you conveniently ignored. Again you're just cherry picking, by your logic Ford is only recommending 5w-30 weight so it's not required either, oh wait that's part of the ford spec isn't it?

"To protect your engine and engine’s warranty, use Motorcraft SAE 5W-20
or an equivalent SAE 5W-20 OR OIL MEETING FORD SPECIFICATION
WSS-M2C930-A"

TorqueMan said:
Yeah, you really did your homework on this one Mr. Darrow.

I will make you a bet. You will never find an example of a warranty denial attributed to a failure to use an oil meeting the manufacturer's specification where the operator was using an API-certified oil of the proper grade. Why? Because you will never find an engine failure attributable to oil under those circumstances.

But, as others have noted, my hair is thin enough. If anyone has a specific question on this subject (how could there be any at this point!?) I'll be happy to answer. Otherwise, I give Mr. Darrow the last word.

So by your logic it doesn't exist, "cause if I can't find it, it doesn't exist and it can't happen"? What is that saying "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"? That's Brilliant pumpkin. Again it does not matter what your beliefs or thoughts are on this matter this is simply about people who want truthful answers other than your biased opinions on saving a few bucks for oil that does not meet ford specs on papers is your personal choice, but people should know truthfully before they decide as you did instead of obscuring facts.

TorqueMan · Mar 14, 2018

Turbong said:
This is all a learning experience as new information comes to light, however the evidence is still solid and coincides with the ford spec WSS weather you agree with it or not should not be detrimental to facts on paper. Although you still insist on comparing a base conventional oil that meets ford spec to your walmart fullsyn brand that doesn't makes no sense at all there are fullsyn counterparts that do meet ford spec why cherry pick options? No logic, were comparing two fullsyn oils which one does have ford spec. Would I choose to run those nonsyn oils my answer is obviously not, would I run the supertech that doesn't have ford spec? Obviously not, there are fullsyn options that do. This is just an issue about you being cheap for a lack of nicer a word, since it does not conform to your decision you are making unnecessary assumptions to fit your needs.

That maybe, for all we know they may have already switched to making synblend base oils and not announced it yet, we don't know, doesn't matter in this particular discussion, no one here is going to be buying those over fullsyn oils anyway, can these "conventional oils" you listed be used? if you like, as long as it meets the spec you can according to ford. It appears either way I was wrong about requiring synblend anyway, here is info straight from the owners manual,

"Use of synthetic or synthetic blend motor
oil is not mandatory. Only use fluid that
meets Ford specifications"

However like mentioned before as long as you use a counterpart that meets ford specs it then there is no problem.

It is an excellent example IL post it again what is so hard about the text written?, the point is he failed to follow the one of the oil specifications and got nailed for it, the 30 was out of Fords spec that I posted straight up read fords specs that were as plain as day which you conveniently ignored. Again you're just cherry picking, by your logic Ford is only recommending 5w-30 weight so it's not required either, oh wait that's part of the ford spec isn't it?

"To protect your engine and engine’s warranty, use Motorcraft SAE 5W-20
or an equivalent SAE 5W-20 OR OIL MEETING FORD SPECIFICATION
WSS-M2C930-A"

So by your logic it doesn't exist, "cause if I can't find it, it doesn't exist and it can't happen"? What is that saying "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"? That's Brilliant pumpkin. Again it does not matter what your beliefs or thoughts are on this matter this is simply about people who want truthful answers other than your biased opinions on saving a few bucks for oil that does not meet ford specs on papers is your personal choice, but people should know truthfully before they decide as you did instead of obscuring facts.

I need tripleyellow to interpret this for me. Dude, can you help a brother out?

Brian V · Mar 14, 2018

Best Oil and Filter for My Engine

TorqueMan said:
I need tripleyellow to interpret this for me. Dude, can you help a brother out?

Tripleyellow has been consumed with Bad mouthing Adam Brunson ...

Ahh yer analysis would probably only lead to even more split ends and confusing rhetoric by yer conterpart on the above stated title .

trippleyelo · Mar 19, 2018

TorqueMan said:
I need tripleyellow to interpret this for me. Dude, can you help a brother out?

Well for "split end "I use a "full synthetic oil" Mobil one
that's on your list of ford specs! so not to have warranty issues 5w 30 is recommended for a 2.3 motor ecoboost engine . I seen and read all the above many times to Sunday, and the Walmart brand, which you writing about meets the ford spec for a non modified 2.3 ecoboost engine ,and we're talking stock rolled out of dealership at this moment in time of your writing, but if your going to push it their is no doubt in my mind that a high performance engine should be given every advantage necessary to keep it safe from engine wear on all internal moving parts "bearing" are the most important piece of the engine their are many! In this motor .

..................Mobil one full synthetic.......................
.................. ......in my engine..................................

So in other words semi synthetic is what ford treated this engine with ,and it is indeed what the recommended oil of choice,and engineering specs were..:ford:

Full modified engine should be feed good oil that exceed the recommended oil so for me " I'm not cheap" when it comes to oil ,and buy the best oil you can afford and beer and head and shoulders what ever your heart tells you..

Is this helping a brother out.. :thumbsup:

trippleyelo · Mar 19, 2018

Brian V said:
Tripleyellow has been consumed with Bad mouthing Adam Brunson ...

Ahh yer analysis would probably only lead to even more split ends and confusing rhetoric by yer conterpart on the above stated title .

Come on mate "I call it how I see it" douche bag +
Never in thousands years this person should get away with what he is doing to some people on this forum .:cheers:

Coyote Red · Mar 19, 2018

I use these forums for "research only" the "Arse Hat's" who want to "Play" I ignore! My next GT oil change will be: Magnatec by Castrol,5w30 mixed with 5w20 due to Walmart not keeping their shelves "stocked" properly. I have used Penzoil and NAPA full synthetic, also Valvoline. Carry on!

trippleyelo · Mar 19, 2018

Coyote Red said:
I use these forums for "research only" the "Arse Hat's" who want to "Play" I ignore! My next GT oil change will be: Magnatec by Castrol,5w30 mixed with 5w20 due to Walmart not keeping their shelves "stocked" properly. I have used Penzoil and NAPA full synthetic, also Valvoline. Carry on!

Sorry got off topic..

Ty Brian v

Best Oil and Filter for my Engine?

Turbong

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