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valentinoamoro

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Well, my car is at the dealer getting its steering rack looked at. They so far have done a programming update to it (mine had some old programming) and the tech reset something that resets the yaw or some such stored memory in the car. I dunno what he was on about. Anyway, I may need a new rack, we'll see, but he said so far it seems to be acting normal. But I'm the one going on track with this so... I'll be the judge.

Overall, the reason I took it in was because the difference between Comfort and Sport and Regular (whatever the three settings are called) is so minimal you might as well not even have the settings (this has always been the case in my car) and lately there was a lot of play on center such that I all of a sudden the steering wheel was being affected by road imperfections where as before it was as stable as can be and no matter how I set and align the car it tramlines with the same wheels/tires as before. I got under the car and checked the tie rods and bumpsteer kit, which seemed fine to me. It also has never really "returned to center" like other cars I drive. It will go toward center but then stop and I always feel like I'm doing more to manipulate the wheel to center than in other cars, even other Mustangs. Like I can't always just let the wheel straighten with my fingers not gripping the wheel -- make sense? Sometimes I can, other times not. This issue I thought was an alignment issue but I had TWO alignments trying to address and it's just not feeling right.

I've complained to two Ford dealers in the past about my steering and they all said it was fine and didn't even document they looked at it. If I need a new rack and Ford won't cover it under warranty because it was never documented that it's been looked at, then I may try to install a 2018 rack from the PP2 car, if it's different. Maybe it is... I don't know but those come with bigger wheels so maybe they made it better.
2018 PP2 would be awesome. Any chance this could be due to the Steeda bearings in front tension arm?
There are folks in the S197 forums with who mentioned a similar bearing swap caused shaking and other issues with steering. Apparently what was happening was it was causing issues with the EPAS resulting in shudder etc. I think Ford updated the programming.

Ugh, 6g is changing the link as it's to a different forum.
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wildcatgoal

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Well I had the similar issues with steering before I ever put the front control arm bearing in. There was a period of time when, with that bearing, the steering was great and I did quite a few track days - didn't really tramline or follow road imperfections on the way to them, either. I don't remember it ever really returned to center like other cars I drive before or after front suspension modifications, which I figured early-on was just a numb steering feeling, not really an issue with my steering rack. But now that it's gotten as intolerable and frustrating to drive as it has, something has got to be off. There's this 4" range of motion left/right from center (so 2" left, 2" right) that just seems to be inconsistent and within that range the car will follow slight/mild road imperfections, especially when they're the same direction as the car or there's a dip in the road that only one wheel goes through at a time... but larger imperfections it's normal and unphased. I am constantly steering the car back to the center of the lane all of a sudden. This started happening before I put the Steeda tension arm in with the extended ball joint (which hasn't been on the car for very long and I haven't been to a track day with yet, just a mountain run), but I've been figuring my alignment was off because I had gone through a bunch of track days prior to that and never checked the alignment in-between those. But it's just gotten worse and worse. I'd love to blame it on an aftermarket part and remove that part, but the logic of how it's all degraded doesn't support that. I suppose having bearings vs. bushings causes more vibration to reach the steering rack, but... it should be able to tolerate that... it's a steering rack. It's almost like within that first 2" of motion either direction the rack is hyper sensitive while also not resisting road forces on it... best I can explain. Considering I'm not squeamish about curbs on tracks, perhaps I've just beaten on the rack too much. I don't go off-roading, just kiss the curbs.
 

valentinoamoro

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Well I had the similar issues with steering before I ever put the front control arm bearing in. There was a period of time when, with that bearing, the steering was great and I did quite a few track days - didn't really tramline or follow road imperfections on the way to them, either. I don't remember it ever really returned to center like other cars I drive before or after front suspension modifications, which I figured early-on was just a numb steering feeling, not really an issue with my steering rack. But now that it's gotten as intolerable and frustrating to drive as it has, something has got to be off. There's this 4" range of motion left/right from center (so 2" left, 2" right) that just seems to be inconsistent and within that range the car will follow slight/mild road imperfections, especially when they're the same direction as the car or there's a dip in the road that only one wheel goes through at a time... but larger imperfections it's normal and unphased. I am constantly steering the car back to the center of the lane all of a sudden. This started happening before I put the Steeda tension arm in with the extended ball joint (which hasn't been on the car for very long and I haven't been to a track day with yet, just a mountain run), but I've been figuring my alignment was off because I had gone through a bunch of track days prior to that and never checked the alignment in-between those. But it's just gotten worse and worse. I'd love to blame it on an aftermarket part and remove that part, but the logic of how it's all degraded doesn't support that. I suppose having bearings vs. bushings causes more vibration to reach the steering rack, but... it should be able to tolerate that... it's a steering rack. It's almost like within that first 2" of motion either direction the rack is hyper sensitive while also not resisting road forces on it... best I can explain. Considering I'm not squeamish about curbs on tracks, perhaps I've just beaten on the rack too much. I don't go off-roading, just kiss the curbs.
Ok... I suspect this is because of the much wider than OEM tires. This excerpt from Motortrend explains what Ford did to accommodate the GT350 and R wider front meats..I'm sure this was also inherited in the PP2, in addition to the revised ratio. At the same time, you did mention its getting worse and I'm not sure why unless you changed the tires. I'm trying my best to figure this out.

My theory - wider front tires put more stress on the electrical assist. GT350 solves by adding a knuckle to provide more leverage. In your case, the gears are wearing out as you had to apply more force at the steering wheel. A secondary contributing factor could be the bearings that added more constant feedback stress to the splines. This also could explain why there is no difference in the modes.

The only hint that there’s something a little different going on in the Shelby is where the meaty 305/30ZR19 Michelin Pilot Cup 2 front tires (315/30ZR19 rears) meet the pavement. In the tips of a driver’s fingers, the steering wheel is just a little reluctant or sticky on center. Ford revised the steering from a standard GT’s with an aluminum knuckle that also adds a bit more leverage to the system to help it get over the huge, front tires’ reluctance to turn off-center. Once loaded and turning, however, the feel goes back to a linear, predictable weight and with now-common-for-electric-assisted steering precision. There’s also an occasional tendency for tire nibble or tramming when they follow grooves or ripples running parallel to the road, but it’s hardly the stuff of race cars
 
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wildcatgoal

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Perhaps what you're saying is the case, but, like I said, I did have issues before the bearing/ball joints. It's only recently gotten intolerable (maybe since beginning of the year) so I decided finally to take it in, naturally after 36K like an idiot.
 

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Perhaps what you're saying is the case, but, like I said, I did have issues before the bearing/ball joints. It's only recently gotten intolerable (maybe since beginning of the year) so I decided finally to take it in, naturally after 36K like an idiot.
Understood. I am suggesting issue is gear wear at the epas system due to wider wheels causing increased steering load. For example, the electric motor provides differing levels of assist to the reduction gear. The area where the electric motor meets the steering gearing could be wearing down due to the excessive force needed to move the larger wheels. Solved in GT350 and PP2 by new knuckle..The other things, like track time and FLCA bearings, which creates more feedback and force at the gear could be contributing factors and reasons why others with wider wheels are not seeing this yet. All of this assumes you alignment is correct and you specifically dont have excessive toe out.

[MENTION=10281]BmacIL[/MENTION] - calling a fellow engineer. What's your take?

All the best and keep us posted.
 
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wildcatgoal

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No, makes total sense. We'll see what the shop says.

I certainly don't have tow out; I run 1/16 toe in. That's been checked twice in the past few months.
 
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Anyone want to sponsor my way into a time trial event and advertise on my car? Haha... ug... WHHYYYY do I like only expensive hobbies?!

Car is still at the dealer for the rack. Filed a case with Ford, per suggestion from the dealer since Ford isn't responding to the warranty request, I guess.
 
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I was in Miami for work and decided to stick around for the weekend knowing Steeda was going to be at Homestead for the SCCA races. Glen Vitale, the VP and race driver, was gracious enough to take me around Homestead after the races in their 2018 GT with effectively the same suspension I have on my 16 GT. Then, he stopped the car and let me drive at about the 9 minute mark! Not my car so... this was just a stroll around the track, especially given the torrential downpour that was characteristic of the entire day.

The 18 car has no tune/engine modifications. It was interested to drive as the clutch was much different (grabbing differently, lighter). It was also the first time in a long time I drove a car equipped with the Steeda Tri-Ax shifter, which is setup to be a shorter throw than how I have my MGW shifter setup, so it was a lot to get used to. The 18 certainly has a smoother power band than my 16 ever did (stock). The exhaust is just a Steeda X-pipe with factory mufflers.

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valentinoamoro

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I was in Miami for work and decided to stick around for the weekend knowing Steeda was going to be at Homestead for the SCCA races. Glen Vitale, the VP and race driver, was gracious enough to take me around Homestead after the races in their 2018 GT with effectively the same suspension I have on my 16 GT. Then, he stopped the car and let me drive at about the 9 minute mark! Not my car so... this was just a stroll around the track, especially given the torrential downpour that was characteristic of the entire day.

The 18 car has no tune/engine modifications. It was interested to drive as the clutch was much different (grabbing differently, lighter). It was also the first time in a long time I drove a car equipped with the Steeda Tri-Ax shifter, which is setup to be a shorter throw than how I have my MGW shifter setup, so it was a lot to get used to. The 18 certainly has a smoother power band than my 16 ever did (stock). The exhaust is just a Steeda X-pipe with factory mufflers.

Thanks!
Did you do some research into the Level 2 steering? It seems its different EPAS calibration for a quicker response, thats all. Not sure how they achieve it (is it just software) and whether we can reprogram our EPAS to match.
 

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Thanks for the info, nice weather.
 

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I wasn't paying attention enough to the steering to notice any difference, plus I hadn't driven my own Mustang at that point for 3 weeks. Still haven't - at the dealer getting, ironically, a steering rack. It has the same suspension as my car, more or less, so all I could think was that it felt just like my car.
 
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FINALLY got my car back from Ford after having to pay $1,000 of a $1,500 bill to replace my steering rack not even 2K miles after the 36K warranty. Ford paid $500. I guess I should be grateful, but given I complained about this twice under warranty and both dealers didn't actually document the issue/complaint (causing Ford to have no proof I complained before), I'm pissed. Steering racks should not fail at 37,600 miles. I was going to use that money for some home improvements, but I guess not.

All the whining aside, the steering is FINALLY (after probably the last 10K) feeling proper. Each stearing setting has an actual difference and it doesn't want to walk around in a lane like it has been. During the period the old rack failed, I had gotten multiple alignments, I checked every bolt there is under that car, and even drove to Steeda in Valdosta for an honest opinion from people who'd take a minute with it. Steeda was the one that finally confirmed the rack has to be the problem.

I really hope Ford steps up for other people. They wouldn't give me any more than $500 because I don't take my car to the dealer a lot for scheduled services. Right, because I have the time to drop my car off at shady dealers to have ball joints checked.
 

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Sounds like Ford Service.
I enjoy the vehicles, I do *not* enjoy dealing with the company or their dealers.

However, I'm even more of a Ford fan, now. My wife was rear-ended in John's Creek on Monday by a texting teenager. She was stopped, with her signal on, waiting to make a left turn. The truck never even touched the brakes and slammed into her Focus at about 60mph.
She has a sore neck and sore wrist. That thing crumpled perfectly. It may not have "saved her life" but it damn sure protected her.
 
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Almost made friends with a wall at Road Atlanta yesterday. Missed it by that much!

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