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V6 automatic....was it a mistake?

fordguys550

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Cool story. What has your car run lol

I think its safe to say, this is a personal preference. Honestly id go up against a AT car with the same mods any day.
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fordguys550

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Also im a member of multiple 3.7 groups on fb. All of the guys holding records all have MTs. Im not talking about 2.3, or 5.0s here. Im talking about the 3.7
 

fordguys550

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Ive also raced a buddy with a s197 3.7 at, with 373s nd a trams brake. I beat him, badly. By 2-3 cars. Like 3 times. Very similar mods.
 

Jared_J

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Cool story. What has your car run lol

I think its safe to say, this is a personal preference. Honestly id go up against a AT car with the same mods any day.
Isn't this discussion about transmission comparison? How does it end up being a personal best comparison? :crazy:
 

Jared_J

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Ive also raced a buddy with a s197 3.7 at, with 373s nd a trams brake. I beat him, badly. By 2-3 cars. Like 3 times. Very similar mods.
Please, do read my reply about statistics. Personal experience with a small sample amount and limited test run conditions is of no reference value to engineering. If you mention that in a R&D department, you will be laughed at.
 

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Jared_J

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Ive also raced a buddy with a s197 3.7 at, with 373s nd a trams brake. I beat him, badly. By 2-3 cars. Like 3 times. Very similar mods.
Just FYI, proper test comparison has to be done in controlled environment with controlled variables. You are not even comparing same car and none of you two are professional test drivers.
 

fordguys550

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Wow lol. Do you just talk or do you ever drive your car....lol.

I could see how youd go with a AT if you sucked at shifting quickly. Ill leave it at that.

For now, ill go with my own experiences. And beating a s197 at, that had a stripped interior, and drag radials....counts for me. And i didnt just beat him 1 time.....i beat him 3 times. Amd since hes driving a automatic...kinda takes the variable of "professional driver" out of the equation doesnt it, mr engineer lol

Heres a video of 2 of our races...and one against a camaro ss just for fun.

Current kill list..

2015 stg2 wrx
350hp wrx
Pontiac G8, unknown mods
94gt
99gt
2000 camaro ss
2015 challenger rt, 8spd auto
Nsx (freeway pulls and it wasnt stock)
370z, not stock
350z bolt ons
2015 ecoboost manual
S197 FBO stripped interior, drag radials

How about this, ill go with what i know works, and you can go with what you know works. But for now, you can quit trying to convince me that a 3.7 at will beat a 3.7 mt with the same mods...(and somebody who knlws how to shift quickly)

And before you mention it, yes, one of the runs on the video i red lighted. These are the only 2 runs i got on video out of the 4 times we ran, and i beat him every time...obviously not counting the red light

 
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fordguys550

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bringing up the MT vs AT discussion usually never ends well....
 
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fordguys550

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I dont like starting flame wars, but ill back up my own personal experiences any time.
 

fordguys550

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Sorry...now i just feel like a dick lol. Im kinda passionate about my manual transmissions lol
 

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Hey guys,

Does anyone regret buying an A/T instead of a manual?
Back to the original question.

My previous 2001 mustang DD was manual. I traded it in on my 2016 v6 that is a DD. That was 15 years of rowing gears in traffic. Do i regret going AT this time? "Yes and No" No, commuting is much easier when in stop and go. Yes, miss manual on open twisty roads or when running auto-X course. Overall glad i went AT this time.

If i ever get a weekend car it will be manual.
 

USMC V6

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I've had my 2015 V6 AT 051A for 3 years and I love the AT. It' never see's "D" I only paddle shift in "S" up and down and when I got my tuner I changed the shifting pressure from factory to +25% which shifts very firm and grab rudder from a stop and in 2nd gear.
 

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I need to try this +25% shift pressure. I kept mine at the default as I don't really understand what you guys mean by "shifts firmly".
 

Jared_J

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Sorry...now i just feel like a dick lol. Im kinda passionate about my manual transmissions lol
No problem man. I like to explain engineering to people and correct some old prejudice.

I forgot to mention that, the automatic's shift schedule is optimized for the stock car's torque band. If you add mods to your engine, your torque band changes and you need to re-calculate your shift point for max accel. Not sure about your modified S197 buddy, if he used stock automatic shift points, that's a big fail. I'm not sure if the aftermarket tunner would calculate the optimal shift point under drag racing for you. I doubt if they would, because to calculate the engine speed drop at max torque accel upshift, it requires the torque converter model to estimate the speed ratio between the impeller (engine) and the turbine (shaft) for a given wheel speed and engine torque. I don't think they would have such model from Ford.

This doesn't mean you can't optimize your automatic's upshift for drag racing. With some datalog, you know your engine's torque band and get an idea of the amount of engine speed drop at each upshift. Then you need to find your upshift point that maximizes the wheel torque both before upshift and after upshift. Without a proper powertrain model it can be tricky to find the sweet point by trial and error, but eventually you will. Same thing goes for the manual transmission.

With your sweet up-shift point find out, all you need to do is to flip a paddle at the right RPM, and the car shifts with highest efficiency for you.

To optimize an automatic transmission aimed for the simple scenario of minimal terminal time problem, the tricky part is the torque band matching and the torque converter. If you know it well, it does good benefits to you. Here is a decent torque converter model for you, if you are interested to know it a bit more:
https://www.mathworks.com/help/physmod/sdl/ref/torqueconverter.html

For stock car from factory, the optimal upshift schedule for max accel can be mathematically calculated. Experienced driving is nice, but mathematics wins all day long, hands down.

Drag racing is a sport, powertrain is a science. The uncertainties and drama makes a sport fun, but for science we want neither of those.

Enough internet fight for me. All I want to say is, those of you who bought a modern automatic, you made the right choice (doesn't mean manual is wrong choice). Enjoy your ride and drive on!
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