Question for guys who actually have the the Roush Kit

MCS

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2021
Threads
52
Messages
1,536
Reaction score
1,622
Location
SW Ontario
First Name
Michael
Vehicle(s)
2021 GT Premium
Try holding the up paddle for about 3 seconds and see if that puts it back or automatic shifting.
Ok I will try that again tomorrow when I'm dropping my son off at school on the way home.

Got any info on the other issue with the jarring 1-2 and 4-5? Only does it in SPORT + or TRACK. I don't notice it in NORMAL driving or RAIN WET.
 

hossman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2017
Threads
65
Messages
913
Reaction score
895
Location
NJ
Vehicle(s)
2021 Shelby GT500
Unfortunately the 1-2 and 4-5 shifts were always harsh in Sport+ mode. One of the things that angered me enough to get rid of my car and go a different route. It’s such a shame that the 10 speed in the Camaro is leaps and bounds better than the Mustang. For a co-developed transmission between Ford & GM the Ford customer got the raw end of the deal for sure.
 

MCS

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2021
Threads
52
Messages
1,536
Reaction score
1,622
Location
SW Ontario
First Name
Michael
Vehicle(s)
2021 GT Premium
Unfortunately the 1-2 and 4-5 shifts were always harsh in Sport+ mode. One of the things that angered me enough to get rid of my car and go a different route. It’s such a shame that the 10 speed in the Camaro is leaps and bounds better than the Mustang. For a co-developed transmission between Ford & GM the Ford customer got the raw end of the deal for sure.
So this is a thing? Cause I NEVER remember having my head bounce like I was at a Motley Crue concert when shifting from 1-2 and 4-5. I let my girlfriend drive the car over the weekend since she has never been behind the wheel of 750 ponies before and she was like "WTF I hope I didn't break anything" LOL
 

Mr. Met

06 Time Person ofthe Year
Joined
Feb 12, 2018
Threads
43
Messages
818
Reaction score
706
Location
NYC
First Name
JJ
Vehicle(s)
2020 GTPP Premium, 2015 GT Premium, 1999 Expedition EB
So got a lot of seat time this weekend. No more stalls.

Couple of things I did notice.

When I am driving with the car in DRIVE (D), and I use the flappy paddles at all, it won't automatically go back to whatever gear the computer wants and remove the flappy icons. It waits till I shift the gears from that point on. The only way to truly go back to DRIVE is to shift to SPORT and then back to DRIVE.

I also noticed that when the A10 goes from 1-2 and 4-5 it's like a super hard shift. Is this a learning thing for the computer to re-learn how I drive post-tune? It is quite jarring and you all know that if you're jarred into your seat then your foot inadvertently pushes down more which makes the whole thing worse. If I see it get close to the shift point from 1st to 2nd gear, and I let off the accelerator a little, it seems to slide into the gear easier. Same with 4-5.
I have had some issues with 1-2, 1-3, and 3-4 shift. The tune/car does not seem to like 2nd. If I remember correctly, the 1-2 shift is programed to only happen under very light throttle, which is often in NYC traffic. But it then immediately shifts into 3rd, even if I'm completely off the throttle. The shift is often as you describe, jolting, sometimes causing my foot to bounce off the throttle. Same thing often happens with the 1-3 and 3-4 shift. After that it's usually very smooth. Happens in normal and sport.

I also noticed the car no longer takes back over in drive after you manually shift.
 

engineermike

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2018
Threads
16
Messages
4,186
Reaction score
3,552
Location
La
Vehicle(s)
2018 GTPP A10
I don't have the Roush tune open in front of me at the moment, but I will say that the Ford OS has 3 shift "characters" and uses them in different modes. In the mustang, 0 is the smoothest shifts and 2 is the firmest. The quickness of the shift and also the engine torque reduction during the shift are both a function of character. Drive (not paddle) uses 0 and Drag uses 2. See if it's any different in Sport, Drag, Drive, Live-in-Drive, SelectShift Sport, etc.

Also FWIW, Sport uses a fairly quick shift (character 1) but also uses a ton of torque reduction during the shift, even more than Drive, which is counter-intuitive.
 

MCS

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2021
Threads
52
Messages
1,536
Reaction score
1,622
Location
SW Ontario
First Name
Michael
Vehicle(s)
2021 GT Premium
I have had some issues with 1-2, 1-3, and 3-4 shift. The tune/car does not seem to like 2nd. If I remember correctly, the 1-2 shift is programed to only happen under very light throttle, which is often in NYC traffic. But it then immediately shifts into 3rd, even if I'm completely off the throttle. The shift is often as you describe, jolting, sometimes causing my foot to bounce off the throttle. Same thing often happens with the 1-3 and 3-4 shift. After that it's usually very smooth. Happens in normal and sport.
Good to know I'm not the only one LOL. Well not good but you know what I mean. How do you get around it? In NYC that must be crazy dangerous to drive something that bounces you around like a virgin on prom night.

I also noticed the car no longer takes back over in drive after you manually shift.
Did you try the holding the paddle for 3 seconds thing?
 

MCS

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2021
Threads
52
Messages
1,536
Reaction score
1,622
Location
SW Ontario
First Name
Michael
Vehicle(s)
2021 GT Premium
I don't have the Roush tune open in front of me at the moment, but I will say that the Ford OS has 3 shift "characters" and uses them in different modes. In the mustang, 0 is the smoothest shifts and 2 is the firmest. The quickness of the shift and also the engine torque reduction during the shift are both a function of character. Drive (not paddle) uses 0 and Drag uses 2. See if it's any different in Sport, Drag, Drive, Live-in-Drive, SelectShift Sport, etc.

Also FWIW, Sport uses a fairly quick shift (character 1) but also uses a ton of torque reduction during the shift, even more than Drive, which is counter-intuitive.
II will get some more seat time tomorrow and definitely when driving to the office Tuesday.

I notice the following (normal DRIVE mode). I don't think I have ever used SPORT (SELECT SHIFT)

NORMAL is butter smooth
SPORT+ is jarring from 1-2 and 4-5
TRACK feels like I'm in a battle scene episode of Vikings when going from 1-2 and 4-5

I did notice that at one point the car was shifting from 1 to 3 but I didn't pay close enough attention to see what all I was in. I'll pay closer attention in the coming days.
 

Mr. Met

06 Time Person ofthe Year
Joined
Feb 12, 2018
Threads
43
Messages
818
Reaction score
706
Location
NYC
First Name
JJ
Vehicle(s)
2020 GTPP Premium, 2015 GT Premium, 1999 Expedition EB
I don't have the Roush tune open in front of me at the moment, but I will say that the Ford OS has 3 shift "characters" and uses them in different modes. In the mustang, 0 is the smoothest shifts and 2 is the firmest. The quickness of the shift and also the engine torque reduction during the shift are both a function of character. Drive (not paddle) uses 0 and Drag uses 2. See if it's any different in Sport, Drag, Drive, Live-in-Drive, SelectShift Sport, etc.

Also FWIW, Sport uses a fairly quick shift (character 1) but also uses a ton of torque reduction during the shift, even more than Drive, which is counter-intuitive.
I used drag mode ONE time so far. There doesnt seem to be any reduction in torque. Every shift the back end was all over the place.
 

Mr. Met

06 Time Person ofthe Year
Joined
Feb 12, 2018
Threads
43
Messages
818
Reaction score
706
Location
NYC
First Name
JJ
Vehicle(s)
2020 GTPP Premium, 2015 GT Premium, 1999 Expedition EB
Good to know I'm not the only one LOL. Well not good but you know what I mean. How do you get around it? In NYC that must be crazy dangerous to drive something that bounces you around like a virgin on prom night.



Did you try the holding the paddle for 3 seconds thing?
The 1-2-3 is not that bad as far as that's concerned because its at slow speed under very light throttle. I believe @engineermike posted the shift schedule before, and the 1-2 shift only happened under 15% throttle. Odd thing is the 2-3 shift doesn't seem to follow that. Happens right away no matter what the throttle position is. Never really had the time to take it back to the dealer. I assume its a tune problem and they would need to keep the car for some time to try and fix it with Roush.

Never tried holding the paddle down like that.
 

engineermike

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2018
Threads
16
Messages
4,186
Reaction score
3,552
Location
La
Vehicle(s)
2018 GTPP A10
I used drag mode ONE time so far. There doesnt seem to be any reduction in torque. Every shift the back end was all over the place.
Yea, character 2 is brutal. I cut my torque down to about 500 ftlb even in Drag/2, and it still breaks them loose momentarily on every shift (even 6-7 on drag radials in summer heat), verified on every log.
 

engineermike

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2018
Threads
16
Messages
4,186
Reaction score
3,552
Location
La
Vehicle(s)
2018 GTPP A10
@Mr. Met there is also a "torque-based shift schedule" that could over-ride the speed-based schedule. Unfortunately, my tuning software doesn't define any of the torque-based shift parameters, so I just switched it off so it will strictly go off of the speed schedule.
 

MCS

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2021
Threads
52
Messages
1,536
Reaction score
1,622
Location
SW Ontario
First Name
Michael
Vehicle(s)
2021 GT Premium
The 1-2-3 is not that bad as far as that's concerned because its at slow speed under very light throttle. I believe @engineermike posted the shift schedule before, and the 1-2 shift only happened under 15% throttle. Odd thing is the 2-3 shift doesn't seem to follow that. Happens right away no matter what the throttle position is. Never really had the time to take it back to the dealer. I assume its a tune problem and they would need to keep the car for some time to try and fix it with Roush.

Never tried holding the paddle down like that.
So basically "re-learn how to drive the car in a different way"? LOL I'm getting a winter car so don't mind if the shop has it for another two weeks LOL as long as she's back in the garage before snowfall cause I don't have Winters for her this year.

Yea, character 2 is brutal. I cut my torque down to about 500 ftlb even in Drag/2, and it still breaks them loose momentarily on every shift (even 6-7 on drag radials in summer heat), verified on every log.
I'm also running drag radials on the rear, but other than a slight hard rolling acceleration, I haven't done anything from a dig as I'm in the city and the middle of October in Canada is like 8-10C outside. Is this where you take it back to Ford and say "Call Roush and tell them I want the car driveable and to check their shifting schedule/characteristics"?
 

engineermike

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2018
Threads
16
Messages
4,186
Reaction score
3,552
Location
La
Vehicle(s)
2018 GTPP A10
Nah they won’t typically custom tune your car allegedly due to emissions cert.
 
  • Sad
Reactions: MCS

MCS

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2021
Threads
52
Messages
1,536
Reaction score
1,622
Location
SW Ontario
First Name
Michael
Vehicle(s)
2021 GT Premium
Nah they won’t typically custom tune your car allegedly due to emissions cert.
But you aren't tuning power/engine parameters; you're tuning shifting. The power is the power; it is what it is but one could argue they could fine tune (no pun intended) the shift points.

Does the transmission actually LEARN anything anymore then? That might smooth things out a little too.
 

Mr. Met

06 Time Person ofthe Year
Joined
Feb 12, 2018
Threads
43
Messages
818
Reaction score
706
Location
NYC
First Name
JJ
Vehicle(s)
2020 GTPP Premium, 2015 GT Premium, 1999 Expedition EB
So basically "re-learn how to drive the car in a different way"? LOL I'm getting a winter car so don't mind if the shop has it for another two weeks LOL as long as she's back in the garage before snowfall cause I don't have Winters for her this year.
I dont know about relearn. Its not great that it happens, but its normally only under light throttle. Under harder acceleration the 1-2 shift doesn't even happen, and 1-3 3-4 seem to be better. I would describe it as the car does not like light throttle. My issue may be different from yours though. You said you have no issues in normal, but this is happening to me in normal mode.

I may talk to the dealer about in in November when I go for an oil change. Thing is its my only car right now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MCS
 
Top