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Six Yrs Later - C8 Z06 finally tries to copy Voodoo

460Fred

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Isn’t it interesting how different companies work on the same thing w/o knowledge of the other doing it....
They all know what each other is doing. No secrets really.
It’s all about timing ;-)
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dps

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I retired from GM Product Portfolio Planning in 2017. Specifically working on Powertrain Competitor Intel and Strategy. My team provided intel on competitors’ powertrains to all the vehicle teams including C8. I can tell you with first hand knowledge and experience that Shelby was not on C8’s radar. The engine GM benchmarked was the Ferrari FPC. There were two Ferrari 458s purchased by the program. One for driving, one for teardown. The engine and transmission from the teardown went directly to the powertrain engineers for study. There were other engines studied, but that was the main one. So, all of this happened BEFORE I retired, which means before 2017. And before the Voodoo was publicly introduced. Of course, they knew Voodoo was coming, because that was my job to tell them :sunglasses: but the Camaro team was much more interested in that than the Corvette team. The powertrain team was also interested, but like my team, they supported both Camaro and Corvette. The decision to go FPC was made long before GT350 launched.
It's interesting to see that both Ford and GM used the 458 as their teardown benchmark.
 

martinjlm

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Isn’t it interesting how different companies work on the same thing w/o knowledge of the other doing it....
They all know what each other is doing. No secrets really.
It’s all about timing ;-)
Very much true. My last 10 years at GM, until I retired in 2017, was spent leading the Powertrain Competitor Intel and Strategies group in Product Portfolio Planning. We informed Powertrain Engineering and all the vehicle teams on what key competitors had coming down the pipeline. We were also on a first name basis with the intel teams at Ford and FCA. I can assure you that there was no “secret sharing” between our group and the others. What we would do, though was I would sit down with my Ford friends and compare notes on FCA, Toyota, Honda, etc and I would sit down with my FCA friends and compare notes on Ford, Toyota, Honda, etc. I’m sure they met to talk about GM, too. Gentlemen’s agreement was we never discussed each other’s companies when we met.

My team made a few big discoveries. We told Powertrain Engineering that Ford was going to put a V6TT in the F150 and price it above the V8. The first time we reported that, we literally got laughed out of the room. One chief engineer even offered a David Letterman style Top 10 reasons Ford would never do something so stupid list. Then we came back the next month with a video of two F150 mules chained back-to-back. The V6TT dragged the V8. The chief engineer stopped me after the meeting and apologized. We also told the Powertrain team that FCA was gonna go hard on installing 48V hybrids in a number of vehicles including a number of Jeep models.

I remember one conversation I had with Camaro Executive Chief Engineer Al Oppenheiser. We were touring his team around NAIAS, pointing out the more important vehicles and concepts. I pointed out the Raptor Concept Vehicle and mentioned that it would come to market with a 3.5TT and 10AT. I mentioned it would be the first vehicle to launch with the 10AT, then the Mustang would get it. Remember, GM and Ford co-developed the 10AT. Al pulled me off to the side and said “Raptor will be second. We’ll be first when the ZL1 launches”. Part of the co-development agreement says each company can develop their own variants. GM developed the high output version for ZL1 and strategically didn’t mention that to Ford.

We were all over the GT500, including the switch from using the 10AT to using the DCT, which caused a year delay in development and introduction and we were on top of the Mach E when it was going to be called Mach I. Remember, this was all pre-2017. Those were fun times. I’m actually having even more fun in my current job, aside from no longer having a company car and open access to a number of cool competitor vehicles.
 

Mjc1241

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Very much true. My last 10 years at GM, until I retired in 2017, was spent leading the Powertrain Competitor Intel and Strategies group in Product Portfolio Planning. We informed Powertrain Engineering and all the vehicle teams on what key competitors had coming down the pipeline. We were also on a first name basis with the intel teams at Ford and FCA. I can assure you that there was no “secret sharing” between our group and the others. What we would do, though was I would sit down with my Ford friends and compare notes on FCA, Toyota, Honda, etc and I would sit down with my FCA friends and compare notes on Ford, Toyota, Honda, etc. I’m sure they met to talk about GM, too. Gentlemen’s agreement was we never discussed each other’s companies when we met.

My team made a few big discoveries. We told Powertrain Engineering that Ford was going to put a V6TT in the F150 and price it above the V8. The first time we reported that, we literally got laughed out of the room. One chief engineer even offered a David Letterman style Top 10 reasons Ford would never do something so stupid list. Then we came back the next month with a video of two F150 mules chained back-to-back. The V6TT dragged the V8. The chief engineer stopped me after the meeting and apologized. We also told the Powertrain team that FCA was gonna go hard on installing 48V hybrids in a number of vehicles including a number of Jeep models.

I remember one conversation I had with Camaro Executive Chief Engineer Al Oppenheiser. We were touring his team around NAIAS, pointing out the more important vehicles and concepts. I pointed out the Raptor Concept Vehicle and mentioned that it would come to market with a 3.5TT and 10AT. I mentioned it would be the first vehicle to launch with the 10AT, then the Mustang would get it. Remember, GM and Ford co-developed the 10AT. Al pulled me off to the side and said “Raptor will be second. We’ll be first when the ZL1 launches”. Part of the co-development agreement says each company can develop their own variants. GM developed the high output version for ZL1 and strategically didn’t mention that to Ford.

We were all over the GT500, including the switch from using the 10AT to using the DCT, which caused a year delay in development and introduction and we were on top of the Mach E when it was going to be called Mach I. Remember, this was all pre-2017. Those were fun times. I’m actually having even more fun in my current job, aside from no longer having a company car and open access to a number of cool competitor vehicles.
Great info sir.
 

ecoboost321

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For us GT350 owners, this new Z06 is a chance to have another American 500+hp naturally aspirated V8 performance car, but now with a DCT ! Only other big displacement NA power in a performance car out there is Lamborghini or Ferrari.
 

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Mjc1241

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For us GT350 owners, this new Z06 is a chance to have another American 500+hp naturally aspirated V8 performance car, but now with a DCT ! Only other big displacement NA power in a performance car out there is Lamborghini or Ferrari.
I agree because I would like one myself to go with my GT350.
 

martinjlm

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Lol. I have Gt vert as well. Car has lots of mods. Its a great car for what it is. It is no where near the level of a 350. Even a track prepped GT isn’t. The reference there is from the GT’s used at the Ford Performance School. Sorry, but if you’ve never had both on a track there’s no way to give an informed opinion. You simply can not put a 350 to what it is capable of on the street. What a 350 can do on a track is nothing short of astounding. There’s a reason why you see very few negatives by anyone that’s put one through it’s paces.
I will amen this. Both when I was in GM Competitor Intel and today as an automotive analyst and consultant for an industry data and information company, I get a chance to drive a lot of different vehicles. My avatar is a shot of a GT350 press vehicle I had for a few days next to my Camaro SS convertible. The week before the GT350 I had a Bullitt. I had issues with the Bullitt that I’ll not discuss here. The GT350 I wanted to keep. In all honesty, the GT350 has been on my “smokin’ hot deal” radar for a while. That means that I always keep my eye open for a smokin’ hot deal and will snap up the right one. The handling, steering feel, shift quality is simply not even close to the same between the two vehicles. Only thing is, I would have to have the GT350 as a track vehicle and car show vehicle. Driving it as much as I drive my Camaro convertible would probably earn me a few tickets because the fun doesn’t really start until 4,000 rpm. That means always being in a low gear or charting some really high speeds. Ford worked some magic in dialing in the GT350 suspension on the D2C architecture.
 

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I'll respond as a former GT350 owner, maybe I still qualify :).

Sure Chevy got the idea due to the success of the 350. I hope that they don't experience the failures that the Voodoo does. This new Z06 is going to be a monster on the track, but I must admit performance aside the C8 is a hideous design on the eyes.
 

m3incorp

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I jumped on the list with the two highest volume Corvette dealers early on. Since it will be built to order, the pecking order doesn't necessarily always stand true, as there are often time constraints on certain parts. I'm hoping to be able to order in the second model year. There tend to be slight changes after the first model year, thus my wanting to wait.

Somewhat off-topic, but do you even know what your expected timeframe to get one is? How far up are you on these lists?
 

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It’s going to be pretty awesome. Any guesses on a msrp? $125k before mark ups?
 

526 HRSE

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I'll respond as a former GT350 owner, maybe I still qualify :).

Sure Chevy got the idea due to the success of the 350. I hope that they don't experience the failures that the Voodoo does. This new Z06 is going to be a monster on the track, but I must admit performance aside the C8 is a hideous design on the eyes.
The interior is what throws me off. I actually like the exterior, but the interior looks as if they tried to hard with cheap materials. Looks tacky to me.
 

dom418

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I don't have to have aids to know I don't want it. I've driven 3 different gt350's, not impressed, especially considering how unreliable and high maintenance they are for marginal performance improvement over a GT.

happy now? 🤗
Having both I’m not sure what you’re talking about. The transmission alone is worth the upgrade. I’m not seeing any decreased reliability or increase in maintenance costs either. The majority of voodoo owners would say the same
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