Sponsored
Status
Not open for further replies.

Stonehauler

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2014
Threads
4
Messages
140
Reaction score
58
Location
Delaware
Vehicle(s)
F350, 550i
To me a 2015+ Mustang is a huge luxury coupe. And that's a GT350. The PP1 or base cars feel like you are sitting on your living room couch or in a Cadilac. It seems crazy to me that you think a Mustang is going to beat you up on a long drive. They are so soft and comfy. If you think the Mustang is too small and harsh riding, I don't think Mustang is the car for you.

I spent easily 20 years driving Fox Mustangs. My opinion is they were one of the best Mustang designs. Cheap to a fault and with a simple V8 in them. They were a lot more harsh on the road than the S550, but I never minded that.

I've driven an XR7 Cougar with the supercharged V6 a number of times and they aren't bad. Just not my kind of car. Too mushy and big.

I would absolutely love it if the Mustang would be sized halfway in between the current S550 and my 944. Actually I'd love it even more if the Mustang was sized exactly the same as my 944, even though I know it will never happen. Now that's a car that you accelerate with confidence into a corner when everyone else is braking.

Yes you can get a cheaper BMW for what an expensive Mustang costs, but that BMW doesn't come with a good naturally aspirated V8 engine.
Heh, you probably didn't get a 20 on truck while at stop light either. There are days I can't sit on my couch or lay on my bed because my back hurts so much. It happens...
Sponsored

 

shogun32

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2019
Threads
89
Messages
14,607
Reaction score
12,097
Location
Northern VA
First Name
Matt
Vehicle(s)
'19 GT/PP, '23 GB Mach1, '12 Audi S5 (v8+6mt)
Vehicle Showcase
2
Now I hear the Challenger is the car to have if you spend a lot of time driving as their seats are like a comfy recliner.
they are very unsupportive seats and mush. I prefer seats with some pith to them.
 

Hack

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Threads
83
Messages
12,283
Reaction score
7,444
Location
Minneapolis
Vehicle(s)
Mustang, Camaro
Yeah the Mustang isn't bad on a longer drive, but the few times I've been on an extended trip I noticed after a couple hours I started to get uncomfortable. Now I hear the Challenger is the car to have if you spend a lot of time driving as their seats are like a comfy recliner. From what I hear the Camaro and most likely the Supra could beat you up quite a bit. But for me, I rarely drive more than 30 minutes at a time except for maybe once or twice a year.
Yes Challengers are good highway cars. Very comfortable inside. If I decided to give up on going to the road course I "might" own a Challenger. edit: Probably not, though. I already think the Mustang is too big. The thought of a Challenger is a little bit appealing though.
 
Last edited:

Hack

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Threads
83
Messages
12,283
Reaction score
7,444
Location
Minneapolis
Vehicle(s)
Mustang, Camaro
kill the rear seat and chop a good 8-10 inches out of the body - think Miata/MX8 design ethos. Then Ford can create a proper 'saloon' 4-seater.
I'd like the rear seat kept, but just made smaller. I like your idea of 10 inches out of the length of the car, though. A couple from the nose, maybe 3 from the rear seat, and reduce the front to rear length of the trunk by 5 inches. Something like that. I don't fit in a Miata. I need a rear package shelf or seat area for the front seat to recline into. My 944 is SOOOO roomy for a tiny car. It has more headroom than the Mustang even though it has a sunroof. And it has a rear seat, despite having a transaxle. A transaxle is another thing that would really improve the Mustang.
 

OX1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2014
Threads
3
Messages
265
Reaction score
76
Location
Jackson NJ
Vehicle(s)
2014 GT Auto-86 Capri 5.0 Turbo, 2017 Fusion Sport
first off, the taurus is no more...
Second, did you ever test drive one? I did, both the SHO and the Lincoln version. It was FWD biased and had a massive amount of torque steer on it. Put your foot on the gas and the steering wheel twists in your hands. Now go compare that to a BMW x drive vehicle and you will see the difference between them.

I really wanted to buy a Ford, but they didn't have a good car at the time.

If you want to know why people will buy a German sedan but pass on an American one, go test drive a few (and not the base models). They are better constructed, better designed, and engage the driver. I am not looking for something to get me from one place to another, but a car that I enjoy driving and the Taurus, Fusion, etc were not it. If the Chevy SS had come out one year prior, I would have bought that instead...

Not sure what you wanted from a Fusion, but here is my experience.
Paid $27.3K new, Put 245/40ZR-19 PS4S's on it, sway bars, and a 93 tune. So well
under 30 grand with mods.

Ran 12.7's my second pass.

20181030_202306.jpg



With minor weight reduction (spare/mats/remove junk)

20181030_180533.jpg



Does 0-30 in about the same time as this 2018 tesla 3 perf

Fusion

FUSION%200-60.jpg


Tesla
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tes...nce-quick-test-review/?galleryimageid=2297247

Model-3-DMP-Acceleration.jpg


Second time ever for me on a roadcourse. Reached a peak of 1.05 G. The adjustable struts really
help a ton in firm, for slalom/racetrack use. Stock brake pads were horrible on track.

IMG_1946a.jpg


Vid (may have to click on 3 dots and download to view). Nothing earth shattering, but zero
drama either pushing a heavy "Fusion", fairly hard on the track.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/FUSION SPORT/HLT/00186.mp4

The thing is dead quiet and comfy @ 90. Gets 20-25 MPG unless your foot is in it all the time.
AWD system is spectacular. Only thing it has ever done weird is flooring it into 50 MPH road with heavy traffic, 90 degree intersection, in the rain. With 420ish Gross torque, it once in a while spins an inside tire due to no front L/S, but this is an extreme situation that you should almost never be doing anyway. Engine was designed for a 1/2 ton pickup.

Yes @ 10/10th's it still acts like a nose heavy pig, but no need to push that hard when the limits on the street are so high. Like size/perf BMW is at least double the price.

Not sure what else you wanted Ford to do. It's a shame they got rid of this just to bring back another 4 door for double the money.
 

Sponsored

Ace

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2014
Threads
45
Messages
1,646
Reaction score
1,316
Location
Germany
Website
www.modernmusclecars.de
First Name
Steve
Vehicle(s)
2018 Camaro 2SS (EU)
That's precisely why Ford needs to build a V8 hybrid. If we can't have a pure ICE V8, then a hybrid version is the next best thing.

I honestly think any other engine combination just won't sell in Europe.......definitely not here in the UK.

If the pure ICE V8 is still built for the US market, I'd rather import a LHD US-spec car than buy a UK spec 4 or 6 cylinder hybrid.
I think a 6 cyl hybrid could still be attractive in europe if the relation between great sound, good performance and reasonable prices is still attractive. Especially with a lot of sportscars not even releasing in Europe anymore (400Z, BRZ) and other carmakers going full ev (there definitely won't be any new non-electric Audi TT), a V6-Hybrid might be a good deal between classic engine und modern stuff to be allowed.
On the bright side, the Explorer is about 60€ taxes here in Germany thanks to the laughable WLTP hybrid tests, which is cheaper than a Polo. So a big fat Mustang costing less than a small car would be hilarious. Might be a really good point for people to switch to the new model to save good amounts of money (since most people simply don't think about the pure loss of value after the purchase)
 

Twin Turbo

Super Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Aug 2, 2012
Threads
479
Messages
9,835
Reaction score
7,402
Location
England
First Name
Paul
Vehicle(s)
Mustang '05 GT
You might be right, Ace, particularly in the rest of Europe.

But here in the UK? I'm not so sure. Our taxes, whilst high, are no where near as bad as other European countries. I'm currently writing an article for a magazine at the moment (with 2 others) and we asked the question of Ford UK what the split of V8/Ecoboost sales were..........85% were V8!! (10,000 S550s sold in the UK since the launch in 2015). I think we Brits were prepared to put up with the car's shortcomings (cost of fuel......poor build compared to BMW/Merc competitionetc) just to have a V8.

Even in the US, the V8 is on death row. A hybrid V8 might just mean it can live a little longer. I'm keeping my fingers crossed!
 
OP
OP

IceGamer

Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2021
Threads
1
Messages
15
Reaction score
22
Location
Germany
Vehicle(s)
BMW G20 330d xdrive
I think a 6 cyl hybrid could still be attractive in europe if the relation between great sound, good performance and reasonable prices is still attractive. Especially with a lot of sportscars not even releasing in Europe anymore (400Z, BRZ) and other carmakers going full ev (there definitely won't be any new non-electric Audi TT), a V6-Hybrid might be a good deal between classic engine und modern stuff to be allowed.
On the bright side, the Explorer is about 60€ taxes here in Germany thanks to the laughable WLTP hybrid tests, which is cheaper than a Polo. So a big fat Mustang costing less than a small car would be hilarious. Might be a really good point for people to switch to the new model to save good amounts of money (since most people simply don't think about the pure loss of value after the purchase)
I don’t think that Ford will give us just that…

I agree that there might be a (small) market for an American 500+hp 6 cyl hybrid in Germany. However, I don’t think that Ford would sell such a car for “only” 50.000€ (60.000$) – currently the cheapest Mustang we can order… Besides, I have a bad feeling about the general pricing structure of future Mustangs. It looks like Ford will raise the price even further and we might end up with a more luxurious car that offers a “modern” hybrid system and AWD for roughly 70.000€/$. I can easily see Ford selling such a car for 65.000€ and more and at such a price I don’t see many customers here in Germany or the EU. I might as well buy a M3/M4 with 10-15% off MSRP…

You know better than me that a “muscle car” is something special in Germany. There aren’t that many and people who buy such a car are most certainly people who prefer a V8 over an amazing 0-60 time. If Ford takes away the V8 they have to compete in terms of acceleration, handling, build quality, software and pretty much everything else. Ford would still win the price-battle and might be competitive in terms of 0-60 times but that’s about it… Besides, who cares about 0-60 (0-100) in Europe? Almost nobody… Track your car around the Nordschleife and give us an amazing lap time that’s when German buyers know it’s a fast car…

Anyhow, at the end of the day Ford will do whatever Ford wants to do and maybe that’s a good thing?! I just hope that we get a V8 here in Germany even if it’s an AWD hybrid priced around 65000€.
 

Twin Turbo

Super Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Aug 2, 2012
Threads
479
Messages
9,835
Reaction score
7,402
Location
England
First Name
Paul
Vehicle(s)
Mustang '05 GT
I don’t think that Ford will give us just that…

I agree that there might be a (small) market for an American 500+hp 6 cyl hybrid in Germany. However, I don’t think that Ford would sell such a car for “only” 50.000€ (60.000$) – currently the cheapest Mustang we can order… Besides, I have a bad feeling about the general pricing structure of future Mustangs. It looks like Ford will raise the price even further and we might end up with a more luxurious car that offers a “modern” hybrid system and AWD for roughly 70.000€/$. I can easily see Ford selling such a car for 65.000€ and more and at such a price I don’t see many customers here in Germany or the EU. I might as well buy a M3/M4 with 10-15% off MSRP…

You know better than me that a “muscle car” is something special in Germany. There aren’t that many and people who buy such a car are most certainly people who prefer a V8 over an amazing 0-60 time. If Ford takes away the V8 they have to compete in terms of acceleration, handling, build quality, software and pretty much everything else. Ford would still win the price-battle and might be competitive in terms of 0-60 times but that’s about it… Besides, who cares about 0-60 (0-100) in Europe? Almost nobody… Track your car around the Nordschleife and give us an amazing lap time that’s when German buyers know it’s a fast car…

Anyhow, at the end of the day Ford will do whatever Ford wants to do and maybe that’s a good thing?! I just hope that we get a V8 here in Germany even if it’s an AWD hybrid priced around 65000€.
Agree with everything you say, especially that in bold!
 

Sponsored

MustangMontreal

Active Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2019
Threads
8
Messages
27
Reaction score
36
Location
Montreal
First Name
Monica
Vehicle(s)
2018 Mustang GT convertible manual
Totally agree - no electric Mustang SUV (kind of) and no four door Mustang!

It will destroy the Mustang (at least for me) and I have a 2018 GT Manual convertible that I like

We finally have a modernized Mustang, with IRS and good hp - wish they would keep to the design, improve quality inside and out but not dilute it

Can you imagine a Porsche 911 electric kind of SUV and a four door rental fleet 911?

Ford - don’t do it! The Mustang deserves continued refinement and staying true to its heritage
 

Bikeman315

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Threads
520
Messages
15,243
Reaction score
19,261
Location
Myrtle Beach, SC
First Name
Ira
Vehicle(s)
2019 Mustang GT/CS, 2021 Volvo XC60
We finally have a modernized Mustang, with IRS and good hp - wish they would keep to the design, improve quality inside and out but not dilute it
They are already keeping the design, S650 & D750. Our cars will only get better

Can you imagine a Porsche 911 electric kind of SUV and a four door rental fleet 911?
Sure, it's called a Taycan Cross Turisimo and it is freakin' awesome. You can also rent Panamera's. It's not cheap but you can do it.

https://turo.com/us/en/car-rental/u...CexGvWUhrXZRAP2wd5ay0SDH8XWTIynoaAj_TEALw_wcB

1615319339523.png


Ford - don’t do it! The Mustang deserves continued refinement and staying true to its heritage
Monica, get it over it already. It's done, finished, kaput. Time to enjoy your 18' and move on.
 

1emglenn

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2020
Threads
11
Messages
158
Reaction score
272
Location
Indio CA
First Name
Eugene
Vehicle(s)
2019 GT Premium PP1 A10 Roush phase 2
see that's the issue - guys say that and then when they do make one that beats the Germans the same guys turn around and say "well I need 4 doors" ...

Then they say "well what about electric... and the wife wants a crossover" :cwl::crackup:🤔

Ford couldn't give a cr*p frankly about the 'buyers' on this board , because there were never really many to begin with lol

this is for the guys who the put $$ where the mouth is and don't want a charger but don't want to pay the depreciation on a German import. If Ford makes this one look good and markets it 'just right' they will be lining up ready to turn in their BMW /Audi leases in DROVES.
I'm sorry but I disagree with you. Especially about the DROVES. The problem with Ford Coporate is that they are always looking at another car manufactures success and not looking at their own. If the S650 is going to be a 4-door they are obviously trying to compete head-on with Porsche, BMW, Audi and to some extent Mercedes. Ford just doesn't have the cache'. The American people are brain-washed into believing that the Europeans build better cars. The truth is that for decades internationally all the car manufactures are using the same technology and parts.
 

shogun32

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2019
Threads
89
Messages
14,607
Reaction score
12,097
Location
Northern VA
First Name
Matt
Vehicle(s)
'19 GT/PP, '23 GB Mach1, '12 Audi S5 (v8+6mt)
Vehicle Showcase
2
The truth is that for decades internationally all the car manufactures are using the same technology and parts.
and yet ask any of the suppliers in NC who supply both Detroit and the BMW/Merc plants in TN/SC/KY etc and they will tell you flat-out, "we ship the failed and substandard parts to Detroit and only the stuff that passed QC to BMW/Merc/Honda" because if we shipped the crap to the latter they would refuse delivery. Ford/GM et. al. don't care. American cars have always been substandard. Not saying BMW/Merc haven't slipped from time to time.
 

Biggus Dickus

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2019
Threads
62
Messages
1,682
Reaction score
1,648
Location
San Bernardino County
First Name
G
Vehicle(s)
Focus RS, Mustang GT, MME GTPE
Not sure what you wanted from a Fusion, but here is my experience.
Paid $27.3K new, Put 245/40ZR-19 PS4S's on it, sway bars, and a 93 tune. So well
under 30 grand with mods.

Ran 12.7's my second pass.

20181030_202306.jpg



With minor weight reduction (spare/mats/remove junk)

20181030_180533.jpg



Does 0-30 in about the same time as this 2018 tesla 3 perf

Fusion

FUSION%200-60.jpg


Tesla
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tes...nce-quick-test-review/?galleryimageid=2297247

Model-3-DMP-Acceleration.jpg


Second time ever for me on a roadcourse. Reached a peak of 1.05 G. The adjustable struts really
help a ton in firm, for slalom/racetrack use. Stock brake pads were horrible on track.

IMG_1946a.jpg


Vid (may have to click on 3 dots and download to view). Nothing earth shattering, but zero
drama either pushing a heavy "Fusion", fairly hard on the track.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/FUSION SPORT/HLT/00186.mp4

The thing is dead quiet and comfy @ 90. Gets 20-25 MPG unless your foot is in it all the time.
AWD system is spectacular. Only thing it has ever done weird is flooring it into 50 MPH road with heavy traffic, 90 degree intersection, in the rain. With 420ish Gross torque, it once in a while spins an inside tire due to no front L/S, but this is an extreme situation that you should almost never be doing anyway. Engine was designed for a 1/2 ton pickup.

Yes @ 10/10th's it still acts like a nose heavy pig, but no need to push that hard when the limits on the street are so high. Like size/perf BMW is at least double the price.

Not sure what else you wanted Ford to do. It's a shame they got rid of this just to bring back another 4 door for double the money.
The Fusion Sport is a really good car - too bad Ford abandoned their 4 door sport sedans.
Sponsored

 
Status
Not open for further replies.
 




Top