“Next Gen” Mustang Will be Electric (EV) Only Claims Autoline

[Gregs24]

Probably true, though roll moment also depends on suspension geometry and the geometric roll centers / front view instant center locations.

Norm

It does indeed. But of course some of those things that are designed in to suspension systems are there to resolve the issue of roll. If that roll motion is not there to the same extent in the first place then it is possible to have less of a compromise on other suspension configuration. If you have to stick a huge ARB on a car to control roll then you will get unwanted secondary effects to that.

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[Cobra Jet]

I have not seen it mentioned (regarding the Norway discussion) - BUT, even though the implementation is not to bring in or sell any BRAND NEW ICE vehicles after a certain date, does that same law or provision block out any purchase of a pre-existing “used” ICE vehicle?

—-

I mean, there’s no worldwide “ban” on ICE vehicles that are still in use and so I cannot see ICE being totally phased out ever - won’t hoppen, ever. I can see perhaps additional taxes or fees tacked onto ICE owners certainly - such as increases in fuel costs, oil for oil changes, emissions (filtered down into your registration event renewals), increased costs for aftermarket ICE parts and/or increased cost for regular needed maintenance parts that deal with the engine etc.. I just don’t see ICE vehicles ever disappearing as the Dinosaurs.

—-

Has anyone considered powering a vehicle with Pepsi and Mentos? I mean shit, the chemical reaction from those 2 components in large quantity, being dumped into a fuel tank, with a controlled operational function and proper exhausting - could most likely propel a vehicle for sure... and no harm to the Earth.

 

[Gregs24]

I have not seen it mentioned (regarding the Norway discussion) - BUT, even though the implementation is not to bring in or sell any BRAND NEW ICE vehicles after a certain date, does that same law or provision block out any purchase of a pre-existing “used” ICE vehicle?

No, it is a ban on new registrations. Existing vehicles are fine.

 

[Sivi70980]

But what flavor of ice cream to you all like?

 

[zackmd1]

Would you gladly trade your 1970 429 Mustang in on an EV Mustang? That's basically the same thing.

It's in large part a matter of finding what you like and why you like it. When you've satisfied yourself all around that you've come to a very good place, why would you give that all up just to jump on somebody else's bandwagon?


Norm

Not quite.... Its not the same at all actually.

 

[Mikthehun1]

Not quite.... Its not the same at all actually.

I believe that was Norm's point. On the one hand there's talk of how people need to be "dragged kicking and screaming into the future", and on the other you recognize how EV's aren't a 1:1 replacement for many vehicles for many people.

 

[zackmd1]

I believe that was Norm's point. On the one hand there's talk of how people need to be "dragged kicking and screaming into the future", and on the other you recognize how EV's aren't a 1:1 replacement for many vehicles for many people.

I recognize that EVs work for modern cars and for the majority of use cases and people. I also recognize that a vintage car would not work as an EV. I recognize that there will still be and should still be a market for low volume kit cars and similar. That’s not getting banned so there is no argument there....

If you want to buy and drive a V8 as a daily then go for it. Even after 2035 you will be able to do that. Just don’t expect it to be a 2036 model year vehicle or be cheap if it’s a low volume car.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I believe that was Norm's point. On the one hand there's talk of how people need to be "dragged kicking and screaming into the future", and on the other you recognize how EV's aren't a 1:1 replacement for many vehicles for many people.

Exactly.

Zack expects me to have less resistance to giving up my '08 GT or any other ICE-powered car I might ever own than he's entitled to when it comes to possibly giving up his 429 Mustang.

IOW, you get to do as I say but not as I'd do if it was my car that had to go.


Norm

 

[Gregs24]

I believe that was Norm's point. On the one hand there's talk of how people need to be "dragged kicking and screaming into the future", and on the other you recognize how EV's aren't a 1:1 replacement for many vehicles for many people.

I think this comes back to a point I made a while ago. EV's are a 1:1 replacement for a lot, maybe even most people, but the residents on this forum are not normal 'most' people. We love our V8's (why on earth would you buy a 5.0 V8 if you didn't really want one - can hardly say you need one!) and ICE cars will always be around. There are over 150 years of history out there after all.

By the same token I don't drive around everyday in a 1970's Capri 3.0 because it is pretty crap by modern standards. Nice for a sunny day maybe, but as cars develop they change and improve and I don't want to ignore those improvements. I'm sure at the time the Capri was seen as the dog's dangly bits, but even rose tinted spectacles aren't going to help now !

Hence why we have a V8 Mustang and a PHEV in the garage. There are times when the PHEV is a MUCH better choice for a journey and vice versa.

 

[Norm Peterson]

It does indeed. But of course some of those things that are designed in to suspension systems are there to resolve the issue of roll. If that roll motion is not there to the same extent in the first place then it is possible to have less of a compromise on other suspension configuration. If you have to stick a huge ARB on a car to control roll then you will get unwanted secondary effects to that.

One of the questions would probably amount to how much the net reduction in roll would amount to. Smaller moment arms but greater mass (and from that, stiffer springs). It's not all "gain".


BTW, I did watch your video link. Just to show you that I tend to look for different things, I saw right away what Porsche did with their wheel and tire package to crutch the impact on handling that comes from having 2.5 tons to cart around.


Norm

 

[Sivi70980]

But really, what flavor of ice cream??

 

[zackmd1]

Exactly.

Zack expects me to have less resistance to giving up my '08 GT or any other ICE-powered car I might ever own than he's entitled to when it comes to possibly giving up his 429 Mustang.

IOW, you get to do as I say but not as I'd do if it was my car that had to go.


Norm

Did you even read any of my responses or just gloss over them in order to keep trying to make your point?

 

[zackmd1]

But really, what flavor of ice cream??

Vanilla

 

[Gregs24]

BTW, I did watch your video link. Just to show you that I tend to look for different things, I saw right away what Porsche did with their wheel and tire package to crutch the impact on handling that comes from having 2.5 tons to cart around.


Norm

I think European makers have gone much more extreme on wheels and tyres on all cars. My Lotus Evora for example has 20" wheels with 285/30 tyres - pretty shallow sidewall. Being a Lotus it actually rides really well despite this - as it seems does the Porsche. Not sure that is an EV thing specifically as the Panamera has very similar size wheels and tyres to the Taycan.

Germany in particular has incredibly good road surfaces making more extreme wheel and tyre combinations possible - doesn't always translate on UK roads where German cars often struggle with poor secondary ride on our more knobbly surfaces. I think Harry also mentioned how noisy the 911 is - mainly tyre roar

Pirelli have developed the P Zero Elect range that is tailored to EV's over ICE cars. Copes with the higher and more brutal torque delivery as well as rolling resistance benefits.

 

[Norm Peterson]

It does indeed. But of course some of those things that are designed in to suspension systems are there to resolve the issue of roll. If that roll motion is not there to the same extent in the first place then it is possible to have less of a compromise on other suspension configuration. If you have to stick a huge ARB on a car to control roll then you will get unwanted secondary effects to that.

If it was a lb for lb swap, that would sound a whole lot better than swapping out maybe 700 lbs or so of ICE engine and transmission for 1000+ lbs of battery plus another 300+ lbs of motor + inverter. IOW, while all of the battery weight and its location helps pull the CG height down, it's working against itself in providing more mass in the mass x moment arm roll moment math. IOW, it's only a net benefit (not a pure gain), and the greater mass comes with other costs (think total vehicle mass and vehicle moments of inertia here).


BTW, I did watch your video link. Just to show you that I tend to look for different things, I saw right away what Porsche did with their wheel and tire package to crutch the impact on handling coming from its 2.5 ton weight.


Norm

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