student debt forgiveness is back

[Briebee72]

This is just anther have and have nots argument. The have nots want help and the haves graciously extend the middle finger. The haves have so they feel the have nots should not. Typically the haves had help yet claim they did it all themselves. They normally either were born into a family that was well off or at least had the means, they had support they had loans and grants and all that... yet claim they did it all themselves so everyone else should too. The haves had friends or business connections to get start in a business or moved up a ladder to a higher paying job and claim well they did it all themselves. The have nots did not have these friends or well off families or even house per say. They are trying but struggling because they did not start from a place of privilege's. The haves dont care you know because they did it all themsleves and say that everyone else should too. regardless every single person in this chat has had help with or for something. NO ONE got through school on their own period. Regardless of what your ego says. Not one person here Paid cash from their pocket from their paychecks for 100% of their schooling. They got grants, scollerships, g.i. bills and so on all funded by....... tax dollars. So every single person here used tax money to some degree for school regardless of how you view it. The problem is now the haves want to have more and are upset that maybe the have nots will get something they wont and that is the real issue. It is no different they two 5 year olds fighting over who got a bigger piece of cake. People need to grow up and maybe care about the betterment of the planet as a whole instead of a narrow narcissistic view. And maybe we would have a better place to live as a race of people. because as of now this plant has become a total shit show with al the self involved people trying to make everything thier way and the hell with everybody else.

I will also add to those who say well its my tax money... of all the things the government wastes and spends tax money on this should really be at the bottom of the list of concerns. At least this is going to something tangible.

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[Cplennon17]

This is just anther have and have nots argument. The have nots want help and the haves graciously extend the middle finger. The haves have so they feel the have nots should not. Typically the haves had help yet claim they did it all themselves. They normally either were born into a family that was well off or at least had the means, they had support they had loans and grants and all that... yet claim they did it all themselves so everyone else should too. The haves had friends or business connections to get start in a business or moved up a ladder to a higher paying job and claim well they did it all themselves. The have nots did not have these friends or well off families or even house per say. They are trying but struggling because they did not start from a place of privilege's. The haves dont care you know because they did it all themsleves and say that everyone else should too. regardless every single person in this chat has had help with or for something. NO ONE got through school on their own period. Regardless of what your ego says. Not one person here Paid cash from their pocket from their paychecks for 100% of their schooling. They got grants, scollerships, g.i. bills and so on all funded by....... tax dollars. So every single person here used tax money to some degree for school regardless of how you view it. The problem is now the haves want to have more and are upset that maybe the have nots will get something they wont and that is the real issue. It is no different they two 5 year olds fighting over who got a bigger piece of cake. People need to grow up and maybe care about the betterment of the planet as a whole instead of a narrow narcissistic view. And maybe we would have a better place to live as a race of people. because as of now this plant has become a total shit show with al the self involved people trying to make everything thier way and the hell with everybody else.

I will also add to those who say well its my tax money... of all the things the government wastes and spends tax money on this should really be at the bottom of the list of concerns. At least this is going to something tangible.

Beautifully said!!

 

[sk47]

NO ONE got through school on their own period. Regardless of what your ego says. Not one person here Paid cash from their pocket from their paychecks for 100% of their schooling. They got grants, scollerships, g.i. bills and so on all funded by....... tax dollars.

Hello; Technically you are correct about me. My mother did help me some with my college education. She borrowed $800 dollars to help me my first year. This was in 1965 so would be more dollars in todays money. The rest I did come by myself. Some from working actual jobs while going to school. Some from the loans I took out. I did without while in college and did without after graduating for a lot of years. None of my mothers neighbors helped her pay back the $800.

I did get loans guaranteed (backed up) by the taxpayers so in a sense that was a help I would not have had from a regular bank. No argument I could have made it without government loans. I would not have had a chance without the government loans is true. Thing I see which you do not acknowledge is my obligation to repay value for the help I got. I did take advantage of a loan and did play by the rules to have the loans dismissed. Never occurred to me that I did not have the obligation to somehow repay what I borrowed.

Painting those of us who do not agree in a negative light is a tactic. I see it and wager many others also see the tactic for what it is.

 

[Briebee72]

Hello; Technically you are correct about me. My mother did help me some with my college education. She borrowed $800 dollars to help me my first year. This was in 1965 so would be more dollars in todays money. The rest I did come by myself. Some from working actual jobs while going to school. Some from the loans I took out. I did without while in college and did without after graduating for a lot of years. None of my mothers neighbors helped her pay back the $800.

I did get loans guaranteed (backed up) by the taxpayers so in a sense that was a help I would not have had from a regular bank. No argument I could have made it without government loans. I would not have had a chance without the government loans is true. Thing I see which you do not acknowledge is my obligation to repay value for the help I got. I did take advantage of a loan and did play by the rules to have the loans dismissed. Never occurred to me that I did not have the obligation to somehow repay what I borrowed.

Painting those of us who do not agree in a negative light is a tactic. I see it and wager many others also see the tactic for what it is.

That was 1965 when a dollar could buy a entire months food for 4 people . Paying back 800 dollars was an easy or I should say easier and reachable task. We need to think modern here. Stuff that happened in 1965 in no way would happen today. I put 800 1965 dollar sinto a inflation calculator and it would equal 6,600 dollars today.. that would be manageable and a extra job or few extra work hours would pay that off but we are not talking 6600 dollars are we? we are talking student loan debts of 60k to as much as 100k. that is simply not gonna be worked off by a extra job. while I get your point and applaud your efforts in 1965 they simply are not a viable comparison for this argument. if the inflation rate were even close to the student loans then yes, but they simply are not. If loans were 6600.00 dollars (the equivalent of 800 in 1965) then yes I would 100% agree with you but the truth is they are not. And this is an issue.

Here is another example of money things that simply wont happen in todays world. I believe is was hendricks the one form hendricks motor sports and racing I read back in the day he traded in a car to buy his first dealership and get started. That would never happen today. Financial landscape and costs have changed since 1965 and things that worked then simply would not today and never will again. like no one today is gonna go get a paper route and buy a car . hell it takes 3 room mates to even afford rent for most people while they work 2 full time jobs. its not just student loans. the cost of everything is reaching unaffordable levels. most people are struggling to pay rent and eat and there is no way they are gonna pay student debt on top of that.

 

[sk47]

That was 1965 when a dollar could buy a entire months food for 4 people .

Hello; No not quite. A dollar could by a meal for one person at a drive in restuarant. (No McDonalds around yet) I could buy enough food to feed my first wife and myself for about a week for $20 in 1966 if we cooked it ourselves. You are off by quite a bit.
Also you skip over what many have been writing in this thread. Sure the cost of college is some percentage higher now that compared to the past. Without going into all the details again it is a demand backed up with easy to get federal money.

Same sort of thing which can happen with a new car model which is is demand. The dealers jack up the price over what is normal as long as the demand exists. Question is if having that new car is worth paying the extra. The demand for a college degree remains high but the pay off from having such a degree is now in question.

I think we have established that the federal backed student loans are a sweetheart deal in the first place. Decent interest rates for a long term. Try going for a regular loan at a bank without any collateral other than your potential in the future. I do not think many would get a loan ay all. Those who do would would likely be considered a high risk and have high interest rates. Not sure the repayment could be deferred as well. Your rants about how heartless those of us are who do not favor the loan forgiveness seem to overlook these basic facts. The federal backed student loans are a good deal for many who otherwise would not have any chance to go to college at all.

 

[Briebee72]

Hello; No not quite. A dollar could by a meal for one person at a drive in restuarant. (No McDonalds around yet) I could buy enough food to feed my first wife and myself for about a week for $20 in 1966 if we cooked it ourselves. You are off by quite a bit.
Also you skip over what many have been writing in this thread. Sure the cost of college is some percentage higher now that compared to the past. Without going into all the details again it is a demand backed up with easy to get federal money.

Same sort of thing which can happen with a new car model which is is demand. The dealers jack up the price over what is normal as long as the demand exists. Question is if having that new car is worth paying the extra. The demand for a college degree remains high but the pay off from having such a degree is now in question.

I think we have established that the federal backed student loans are a sweetheart deal in the first place. Decent interest rates for a long term. Try going for a regular loan at a bank without any collateral other than your potential in the future. I do not think many would get a loan ay all. Those who do would would likely be considered a high risk and have high interest rates. Not sure the repayment could be deferred as well. Your rants about how heartless those of us are who do not favor the loan forgiveness seem to overlook these basic facts. The federal backed student loans are a good deal for many who otherwise would not have any chance to go to college at all.

I exaggerated the dollar buys whole week yes... My point is all the ones against tax dollars paying off loans are all giving options to people that for 1. the cost of things is the problem some people no matter how many jobs thy get can not afford these loans any more it has gotten off track. 2. the solutions you and others keep suggesting are all... wait for it.. wait... backed by tax dollars. So no matter what, it's tax dollars doing the work. The real issue here is the ones with paid off loans don't want others getting something they cant. If the government also said we are gonna pay off loans and also give back loans to the ones who paid off theirs there would be zero fight. Not one of you would say no no keep the tax dollars I wont take them. And if you were getting a cut then you and the others would have no issue with it any more. So yes it does come down to i'm not getting something out of it so I don't want anyone else to either. And that is just the facts. If every single person was getting their college money back paid from tax dollars or not there would not be a single one of you on here complaining because then you would be getting your cut of the cake. So yes it is about heartless haves, not wanting the have nots to get anything. If you were included and the government said you also will get your 800 back increased for inflation to 6.600.00 dollars would you be against it then? would you say no no keep the check I don't want it? I seriously doubt it.

 

[MIDLYFE]

https://thefederalist.com/2020/12/16/mike-rowe-i-dont-want-to-pay-for-your-useless-college-degree/

 

[DaveB]

It's just weird... we quickly go right back into the echo chamber. People not doing their research and listening to some "friend".

The free Obama phone? That program started under Regan. Not new.

50,000 forgiveness is actually a public service loan forgiveness program. Not new.

Nothing he is proposing is new. Although, we do need to investigate how his proposals worked in the states he got them from... and if they can work nationally. For example, proponents claim some of his programs will boost our GDP... bla, bla....

Truth is liberals don't think Biden is providing anything new and Republicans seem to forget everything Biden is offering is already in place in some form or another.

It is weird.

Cell phones didn't exist when Reagan was president

 

[Briebee72]

Cell phones didn't exist when Reagan was president

Cell phones were invented in 1972 and the following phones were available to consumers during reagans last year of presidency

 

[FreePenguin]

https://thefederalist.com/2020/12/16/mike-rowe-i-dont-want-to-pay-for-your-useless-college-degree/

Truth spoken

 

[sk47]

the solutions you and others keep suggesting are all... wait for it.. wait... backed by tax dollars. So no matter what, it's tax dollars doing the work.

Hello; No this is not correct. My solution is for those who took out a "sweetheart loan" to pay that loan back themselves, not taxpayer money. Several methods have been suggested. From attaching wages to taking from tax refunds and social security.

(noted how you ignored the Sweetheart loan part)

If the government also said we are gonna pay off loans and also give back loans to the ones who paid off theirs there would be zero fight.

Hello; I can only speak for myself. I would not be in favor of the government paying me back for the old loans I had which are long discharged. The basic reason being the government is already in too much debt. The existing debt is enough to damage the economy. Just in the last year there has been massive increases in the national debt. This debt does matter. Inflation is going to be bad now without any more additional debt. Inflation is not the worst of what can happen. The spending is out of control and not something to be dismissed. So again you are not correct.

The student loan debt forgiveness was sort of like "a chicken in every pot" promise during an election. Not a sound notion economically for the country along with many other spending dreams we as a country simply cannot afford. I get that the game has been played for a long time. That because the economy has not totally crashed just yet, some believe the game can continue. I fear it may be like the fellow who fell from the 100th floor and is heard saying on the way down "so far, so good". The so called "free" stuff from the government is in no way free.

 

[sk47]

Hello; I get that cell phones were first available long before they became common. I do not know for sure when the "free" phones program actually started, but from memory it was during the 2008 to 2016 time frame. An interesting side track at best.

 

[Briebee72]

Hello; No this is not correct. My solution is for those who took out a "sweetheart loan" to pay that loan back themselves, not taxpayer money. Several methods have been suggested. From attaching wages to taking from tax refunds and social security.

(noted how you ignored the Sweetheart loan part)

I think you may be out f touch with the payment terms on these sweetheart loans. when you already have 1600 a month rent ( and thats considered affordable housing), the average car payment now is getting to be 500 on top of everything else you are working two jobs to pay your 3000 a month life regular bills you are already behind on how are you suppose to pay the 600 plus a month student loans too? they may be loans but they are still backed by tax dollars. social security.. yeah sure make sure they have nothing at retirement by taking it for loans.... and then what does a 70 year old do that might need that social security?

I guess all of you well off people have not read or care to read the state of the country? pretty much 3/4ths of the country cant afford anything. not a 500 dollar emergency no savings. living check to check... what 40 some percent considered poverty... the cost of things is out of control sucking every last dollar our of most peoples pockets and yall who are lucky enough I guess not to be in the situation are all yeah screw them.

the just said the other day the average car is now 40k and the average car payment is 570 a month. thats just one facet of life. IN my area alone the average new house is 350K but the median income is 34k for a couple. 34K.... exactly how is one suppose to pay all these crazy priced things when workers pay has not gone up at all while prices have gone through the roof? But again yall in your ivory castles... I hope none of you know the struggle and I do hope, as mean as it is, if you ever do then everyone tells you to go jump off a bridge and do it yourself. But I can promise this if bad luck ever befalls any of you . I can promise youll be there with your hand out. people need to treat others with respect and help thier fellow man.

its perfectly ok for tax money to be spent uselessly on military crap that is only made to make Halliburton even richer. and put money in the riches pockets with useless government contracts... but screw helping your fellow man with that money.


oh well Im done with convo I already hashed this out in my own thread before. this thread was just a me too thread anyway.

For the record i paid my own student debt i will get nothing form this if it happens and Im ok with it. I hope it helps people out of poverty and into better jobs they dont have to work just to pay student loans and can actually provide for their kids instead of ending up on a repeating cycle. I would rather have a future with people who didn't have to struggle to make it through life. and maybe then all this hate and conflict would die off if people weren't always so pressed for money. any who have fun yall been a ball.

 

[sk47]

I think you may be out f touch with the payment terms on these sweetheart loans. when you already have 1600 a month rent ( and thats considered affordable housing), the average car payment now is getting to be 500 on top of everything else you are working two jobs to pay your 3000 a month life regular bills you are already behind on how are you suppose to pay the 600 plus a month student loans too

Hello; No I am not completely out of touch. I did mention how I had to do without back both as a student and for over ten years after I graduated college. I did without extra because rent, groceries, and all took the bigger portion of my pay. This dynamic has been the nature of life for a long time, not just recently.
You make a false claim that those of us not in favor of what yo want are all sitting pretty on easy street. Where do you think the tax dollars come from? The same people you want to foot the bill for someone else's college are also faced with all the expenses you name. Even the national debt which is on the books will at some point have to be shouldered by those citizen taxpayers. This notion that the cost will only fall onto the well to do is false.

social security.. yeah sure make sure they have nothing at retirement by taking it for loans.... and then what does a 70 year old do that might need that social security?

Hello; This is already being done. I have a modest pension from being a school teacher in a low wage state. Because I have that modest pension the social security quarters I worked out doing second and third jobs have been reduced by nearly two thirds. By that I mean the SS benefits I do qualify for because of the jobs I did are actually reduced. Not because I borrowed money and did not repay the loan that was owed. Life is tough and not always fair. But paying back what you genuinely owe is not one of the unfair things that can happen.

 

[MIDLYFE]

18 yr olds signing contracts for large sum loans is something that should be warned against, not encouraged. Stop guaranteeing the loans and tuition will come down naturally.

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