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[Locked due to politics] Student debt cancelation. Seems there are strong opinions against it from some.

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GP2017GT

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Okay here I go, I'm jumping in deep. College books cost on average about 160 dollars. If you buy them used maybe 110 dollars, when you go to sell them back you get 35 dollars for them. You can even rent the books for a ridiculous price. Average cost of one semester hour roughly 500 bucks. That adds up quickly. I have the G.I. bill but still cringe when I see how much it costs. Yes, it's a choice we make but no one ever complains when our politicians spend over 500 million dollars to a job that pays 400 thousand dollars a year. I'm not a math major but something doesn't add up. Where are the righteous folks when that happens? Buying yard signs and hats.
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HoosierDaddy

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I wasn't aware of any plans for canceling or forgiving student loan debt. Everything I've seen or heard was to have taxpayers pay off the debts.

If the educations weren't worth what students promised to pay, sounds like we need class actions against the schools to pay back however much they charged over what it was worth. Win-win.
 

JimGT

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Education and healthcare - the discussion seems to be about how to pay for it, not why it is so darned expensive...

But on the other hand I don't get how college educated folks can think the "government" is paying for anything. They can only pay with what they take from others.. So the poor soul who worked their way through college, joined the armed services to get it paid for, applied for scholarships, etc. ends up sacrificing to pay for theirs and then get handed a bill (taxes) to pay for all the folks around them that were not diligent.

I have 2 kids in college. Both got good scholarships and one worked as an RA to get housing paid for. They will both will graduate debt free because they worked to set themselves up for success.

There is a ton of money to be made out there without a college degree, think electrician, plumber, or even mechanic.

At the end of the day it gets old paying for other folks to make poor decisions....
 

JimGT

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I hope some of you are reading your own responses here. It exactly what IM saying. a bunch of I had to do it so should you. No one wishes better for the human race as a whole or betterment for their fellow man its all about jealousy and I had to do it so should you.

No one is saying anyone went in looking for free ride but in todays world when you went in looking for a bright future to only get out owing as much as a house payment each month for loans and there are no jobs especially now with all this corona crap. you got kids to feed and other bills. hell yeah man you need help.

couple people directly said im the one wanting a hand out? snow flake? People need to read. I already plainly said I been through it and I paid my loans I dont need anything. I Looking out for my fellow man. But i can see from most all the responses Im alone here. caring about others is a lost thing people now a days are just screw everyone else I guess. its sad.

To the ones saying screw hand outs and then say go get grants and scholarships ... who do you think pays for those? what's the difference? most grants and scholarships you dont pay back are... yup government backed. those saying join the military... again who do you think is paying for those? they already get a check and other government things for being in the military the college is a added government handout. again what's the difference. a government handed tuition is a government handed tuition no matter what its called.

Its pretty simple really. if you already done it and paid your loans then you are against it cause you had to do it. and yes that is selfish. but if those same people still had student loans outstanding then they would be all for it.

NO one was against that stimulus check that was getting one now were they.

If the government said tomorrow they were gonna pay 25K off every homeowners house how many of you same people with paid off school loans that think others with loans shouldn't get hand outs would be in line for that house check? Yeah every single one of ya. you are only against school loan payoffs cause you arent getting anything out of it and think no one else should either.

People amaze me.

I suppose when you went to buy your mustang you made a wise decision and bought according to what you can afford? Or did you just jump on the GT500 because they had it? College is expensive no doubt but there are less expensive colleges, and other paths to spend less. Community college for the first couple years, etc.

My house is paid off too, so the TARP program several years back was just as irritating.. I forgo extras to set myself up for financial success to only pay for others mistakes... Personal responsibility, that is what is missing in every one of your arguments. Your an adult, if you make bad decisions suck it up and fix it.
 

dafuture

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As a current student who's in debt, I'm honestly against this. Hear me out:

I went to a state school undergrad and I've worked full time through grad school and paid much of my tuition bill out of my own pocket. I've sold prized possessions, depleted my bank accounts, forgone purchasing a home, all to be fiscally responsible and cover my bills. If loan forgiveness went through, I'd effectively be penalized for being financially responsible and not racking up tons of student loan debt.

Furthermore, many of these students chose to go to expensive private schools, racking up as much as $200k in undergrad, with an equal amount added if they went to graduate school. Starting out $200-300k in the hole and getting a job for $60k makes paying off this debt impossible. However, if they'd simply chosen to go to a public school, this debt could be a fraction of what it is.

I'm all for helping people who have actual financial need, but in my head the qualifier should be that they made reasonable financial decisions to begin with.

For the record, I respect if anyone disagrees with me. I just have a hard time being asked to fund other people's poor financial decisions when I've worked hard and been extremely careful with my own money.
 

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sotek2345

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I suppose when you went to buy your mustang you made a wise decision and bought according to what you can afford? Or did you just jump on the GT500 because they had it? College is expensive no doubt but there are less expensive colleges, and other paths to spend less. Community college for the first couple years, etc.

My house is paid off too, so the TARP program several years back was just as irritating.. I forgo extras to set myself up for financial success to only pay for others mistakes... Personal responsibility, that is what is missing in every one of your arguments. Your an adult, if you make bad decisions suck it up and fix it.
To me the big issue is that the high school KIDS making these decisions aren't really adults. The majority have to make decisions and apply before they are 18 (legal minimum for adult). You have teenagers signing up for hundreds or thousands in debt! I agree parents should help make this decision, but what if the student is the first in their family to go to college? That was the case for me and the guidance office at my HS just told me to go to the best college I could get into and don't worry about cost. I had scholarships, but still would have saved a ton of money going to a state school instead with no real impact on my career or earning potential. (Don't really begrudge it - wouldn't have met my wife!)
 

Jbraun2828

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I agree, under the current system, if they choose to go, they should pay. And I agree that college isn't for everyone. But why should we deny someone an education because they can't pay?

How about we change the system? Instead of spending tax dollars on another $80B in the defense budget, that doesn't need it, use that to pay for college for all. It's money that we're already paying in taxes. My wife's niece went to college for virtually nothing, because her parents don't work (I don't want to get started on that). Who paid for that? Those of us that work and pay taxes. Does that seem right? Or fair? Or equal? I don't mind I really don't mind paying taxes, IF that money is being used wisely. It's currently not being used wisely.

Think of the possibilities. Students could go to school, and focus on school. They wouldn't have to worry about do i study, or do I work. ALL kids could attend college with the opportunity to learn about something that they're actually interested in. Just imagine if EVERY youth had the chance to become a doctor, an entrepreneur, a mechanic, or whatever. Instead, college is now priced so that the wealthy or those that are willing to take on 30 years of debt can attend. The few that can attend on thanks to the US tax payer, have the work/study battle so stacked against them, most drop out.

It's a damn shame the money that is wasted in this country instead of being used to actually help people.

I don't know, maybe I'm just getting soft in my old age (there's a pill for that right?!).

Just my 2 cents.
I think our defense budget is pretty important given the state of the world
As for making college free for everybody, all kids are going to do is party for 4 years. Maybe not all, but I bet more than half. They will have no skin in the game and it will be a 4 year party with no consequences. At least when parents pay or students pay they have to feel somewhat obligated to follow through with the massive amount of money spent. Free doesn’t work
 

JimGT

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As a current student who's in debt, I'm honestly against this. Hear me out:

I went to a state school undergrad and I've worked full time through grad school and paid much of my tuition bill out of my own pocket. I've sold prized possessions, depleted my bank accounts, forgone purchasing a home, all to be fiscally responsible and cover my bills. If loan forgiveness went through, I'd effectively be penalized for being financially responsible and not racking up tons of student loan debt.

Furthermore, many of these students chose to go to expensive private schools, racking up as much as $200k in undergrad, with an equal amount added if they went to graduate school. Starting out $200-300k in the hole and getting a job for $60k makes paying off this debt impossible. However, if they'd simply chosen to go to a public school, this debt could be a fraction of what it is.

I'm all for helping people who have actual financial need, but in my head the qualifier should be that they made reasonable financial decisions to begin with.

For the record, I respect if anyone disagrees with me. I just have a hard time being asked to fund other people's poor financial decisions when I've worked hard and been extremely careful with my own money.


KUDOS to you! Personal responsibility, someone wants something they should make the sacrifices to get it as you did and so many of us have. And I think that is the heartburn for us, we aren't selfish we just made sacrifices I don't think others did to get there.
 

dafuture

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KUDOS to you! Personal responsibility, someone wants something they should make the sacrifices to get it as you did and so many of us have. And I think that is the heartburn for us, we aren't selfish we just made sacrifices I don't think others did to get there.
I appreciate it.

That's exactly what I'm feeling, you summed it up perfectly.
 

Crowd Hunter

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I must say first off I dont have student debt, so basically I dont care really but....

So people who had student debt and had to as they say "suffer and forgo things and have hardships" basically wish the same thing upon others. Why in the world knowing how crushing student debt can be would you wish it upon others instead of going along with a plan to eliminated it? I can tell you selfish self-centered a-holes. What about your children? wouldn't you want the burden of student debt to be lessoned? NOOOOO!!!! because you had to do screw everyone else happiness then need to be crushed by student debt too.

Disclaimer this is not political this is anti selfish a-holes.

Why do people wish hardships on others? I mean If i was in a relationship and i was treated liek crap and cheated on I wouldn't wish it on others. No different with student loans. if they want to get rid of some let them. stop being a jerk and protesting it because you had to.... things change Jesus let someone have a happy life and move on.
I'm not wishing hardship on others. Where do you think the money will come from? I can tell you...it will come from taxpayers. Why should I, as a taxpayer, be expected to pay for people who went to college when I, myself, never went to college?
 

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Mikthehun1

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I wasn't aware of any plans for canceling or forgiving student loan debt. Everything I've seen or heard was to have taxpayers pay off the debts.

If the educations weren't worth what students promised to pay, sounds like we need class actions against the schools to pay back however much they charged over what it was worth. Win-win.
Wait, hold the people who caused the mess accountable? You must be new here :crackup:
I'm not wishing hardship on others. Where do you think the money will come from? I can tell you...it will come from taxpayers. Why should I, as a taxpayer, be expected to pay for people who went to college when I, myself, never went to college?
Same reason I will soon be paying for property taxes to support a public school system that I will never use (my wife and I both have zero interest in having kids). I'd love for taxes to be a la carte, but that's not how it works.
 

sotek2345

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Wait, hold the people who caused the mess accountable? You must be new here :crackup:

Same reason I will soon be paying for property taxes to support a public school system that I will never use (my wife and I both have zero interest in having kids). I'd love for taxes to be a la carte, but that's not how it works.
You benefit from a school system even if you don't have kids in it. An educated population is a GOOD thing!
 

lacanteen

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I did it the old fashioned way: Scholarships based on grades, and a full time job. Took me an extra year but no student debt.
 

ford20

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I will chime in with my thoughts. My wife and I, for many reasons I won't go into - though we do both have masters, are still have 6 figures in student loans after making payments for almost 20 years. We have about another 20 years of payments to make. Thankfully we have done pretty well for ourselves and can now afford our payments without too much pain. We did have a lot of pain through our 20's and early 30's though when our income was lower and we had young children.

All that said, I would fully and wholeheartedly support student loan forgiveness even if it had an exclusion that directly and only applied to my family. Asking 17 to 18 year olds to make these decisions and sign up for these crazy levels of debt (that is exempted from bankrupcy) is just not appropriate. And to that the cost increases colleges and universities can add over the course of a degree and it is a very unfair system. I think we need loan forgiveness (means test it if you want to so that those not feeling pain are excluded). We also need to solve the root of the problem - I think a robust public education system, that is free to the student, would help drive down prices across the board, or leave exclusive private universities as the expensive ones - but that is OK.

Many folks in have posted about what colleges and universities provide from an employment perspective, and while that is part of the story, it isn't everything. There is a value in having a well rounded education (especially in history, writing, logic, philosophy, and politics). Don't was all want a better educated electorate? Don't we want people who know how to critically examine information to determine facts from opinion?
I don't know if these loan options were available in the early 2000's, but I know they were in the later 200's, but now you have loan options that are paid based on your income level. The point being as you said that in your 20's and early 30's your loan repayment cut into your income, but with these kinds of loan repayment options they are capped at a certain percentage of your income so as you earn more money, you pay more of your loan balance down and if you make less money, you have a smaller payment to make so it bases your payment on a small percentage of your yearly income. Also, I have a Masters degree worth of student loan debt tied to my name and there are also loan forgiveness options as well. If you pay your student loan balance dutifully for a certain period of time (20 years from what I have seen is the most common) the rest of your student loan after that time period will be forgiven. Even then, I think there are better options than student loan forgiveness to address the issue at hand such as income share agreements where students agree to pay a certain percentage of their income for a certain number of years. In exchange, the lender pays for their education. If the borrower winds up not able to find a job after graduating then they pay almost nothing, and if they get a job that pays 6 figures after they graduate, the deal will probably be lucrative for the investor. In particularly bad years the loan is paused and it helps the lender (because these low-paying years are replaced with higher-paying ones later) and if a student really hits it big, he might hit the repayment cap ( sometimes 2.5 times the amount of the loan) and be done paying early. Currently, these agreements typically collect 3-15% of the borrowers’ income for 5 to 15 years, though of course, those numbers are malleable to account for different students’ situations.

I am going to presume that before your decision to pursue your masters, your level of student loan debt was manageable, but once you decided to continue on and get a post-graduate degree, your student loans skyrocketed after that. At that point, you were no longer a teenager, probably more along the lines of 21 or 22 years old and you had a more decent idea of what it is you wanted to get out of your life. As I had mentioned earlier 1/4 of the increase in student loan debt has been due to people pursuing post-graduate degrees which is something that most people discuss with their parents or professors or friends and look at this and see if they actually want to do that. These decision-making processes can be addressed through other means that aren't related to student loan forgiveness though. At some point, you have to be able to make a decision as an adult and even at 17 and 18, we make life-impacting decisions outside of our college choices.
 

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I agree, under the current system, if they choose to go, they should pay. And I agree that college isn't for everyone. But why should we deny someone an education because they can't pay?

How about we change the system? Instead of spending tax dollars on another $80B in the defense budget, that doesn't need it, use that to pay for college for all. It's money that we're already paying in taxes. My wife's niece went to college for virtually nothing, because her parents don't work (I don't want to get started on that). Who paid for that? Those of us that work and pay taxes. Does that seem right? Or fair? Or equal? I don't mind I really don't mind paying taxes, IF that money is being used wisely. It's currently not being used wisely.

Think of the possibilities. Students could go to school, and focus on school. They wouldn't have to worry about do i study, or do I work. ALL kids could attend college with the opportunity to learn about something that they're actually interested in. Just imagine if EVERY youth had the chance to become a doctor, an entrepreneur, a mechanic, or whatever. Instead, college is now priced so that the wealthy or those that are willing to take on 30 years of debt can attend. The few that can attend on thanks to the US tax payer, have the work/study battle so stacked against them, most drop out.

It's a damn shame the money that is wasted in this country instead of being used to actually help people.

I don't know, maybe I'm just getting soft in my old age (there's a pill for that right?!).

Just my 2 cents.
Ok, first off, the military NEEDS that money. You try going to war with aircraft and equipment that would have antique tags on it if it was a car. Plus they earn it. Let your poor little college kid go to a foreign land and face death and see if they agree when and if they return. Everyone can't afford a new GT500, should we give those out too? Being poor is not an excuse to not go to college if you really want too. Like mentioned earlier, join the military, they will send you. How about trying hard work to get there. Life isn't easy. Some kids are lucky that their parents had the forethought to work hard and plan ahead, doesn't mean they should be punished for that. In a nut shell, it's NOT the governments job to provide for everyone. With all the programs, scholarships and other such things as the military there is not reason anyone can't get an education if they want it...if you want to call what they pump out in college these days an education. Now is money wasted in this country...yes...welfare being the biggest expense of wasted money we have. It is not meant to raise generations of people who are to damn lazy to work. Now I'm up to 4 cents worth.
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