Mach 1 performance “very very close to the GT500”

[Ace]

Except it’s not... at C&D, the Mustang put down better numbers in every measure, including a pretty healthy advantage at Lightning Lap

No, it was not. It was faster in the lightning lap, but lost most of the measurement numbers besides grip.

PP2:
Grip: 1.06 g
0-60: 4.3 seconds
Quarter mile: 12.7s @ 114 mph
70 - 0: 146 ft

1LE:
Grip: 1.05 g
0-60: 4.1
Quarter mile: 12.4 @116 mph
70 - 0: 141 ft
Source

I think PP2 and 1LE are pretty much on par. The driver will matter much more than if you went for the PP2 or 1LE. With the upgrades of the Mach 1 and the handling package I expect the Mach 1 to be faster on track than the PP2 (not in the pure measurements) and even be on par or ahead of the GT350

Sponsored

 

[jake_zx2]

No, it was not. It was faster in the lightning lap, but lost most of the measurement numbers besides grip.

PP2:
Grip: 1.06 g
0-60: 4.3 seconds
Quarter mile: 12.7s @ 114 mph
70 - 0: 146 ft

1LE:
Grip: 1.05 g
0-60: 4.1
Quarter mile: 12.4 @116 mph
70 - 0: 141 ft
Source

I think PP2 and 1LE are pretty much on par. The driver will matter much more than if you went for the PP2 or 1LE. With the upgrades of the Mach 1 and the handling package I expect the Mach 1 to be faster on track than the PP2 (not in the pure measurements) and even be on par or ahead of the GT350

Except in this head-to-head, the Mustang put down 1.13G. The braking and lateral Gs are higher in the Mustang, that’s why they don’t even mention those factors in the 1LE
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ca...019-ford-mustang-gt-performance-pack-level-2/

I’d agree that the PP2 and 1LE are on par though. That was my point in bringing this up, because someone had said that the PP2 cant even match the 1LE, which isn’t the case at all... because sometimes, it can even beat it

 

[shogun32]

Not that spec-sheet racing matters a damn but the grip advantage is almost entirely due to tires. SS1LE has Supercar 3, the PP2 has 0.5" wider front wheel and also runs Cup2. The equivalent tire would have been the Supercar 3R.

The Mach1 is finally a car that can credibly go up against the SS1LE. At a mere $7000 more expensive price though. When the Mach1 is discounted 10% like all the other Mustang models on the lot, I'll consider buying one.

 

[Rocketman]

Except it’s not... at C&D, the Mustang put down better numbers in every measure, including a pretty healthy advantage at Lightning Lap



The GT350 is about half a tick off the Shelby R. That’s an important distinction, as although the 2019+ GT350 is within spitting distance of a GT350R, the 2015-2018 was quite a bit off the pace (IIRC, by Ford’s admission, up to 3 seconds a lap at certain tracks). Meanwhile, the 1LE is within less than 1 second offa GT350R at LS, meaning the GT350 would be lucky to set a matching pace, let alone beat it. And then, of course, we have to mention that it has even beaten an R’s lap time at willow springs with the same driver (I know, different day, but still indicative of how close the cars can be)

So ultimately, the shortcomings that the PP2 have compared to the 1LE are mostly in the subjective sense (driver inspiring, compliant suspension, responsive steering) yet it still matches it in performance. The Mach 1 HP improves upon all of those complaints, with suspension components specifically designed to reduce tramlining, increase steering feedback, offer more suspension compliance, better shifts, better gear ratios, and better acceleration... and if Ford can deliver what they’re promising, we should have a car that will no doubt beat the 1LE and GT350v1, while nipping I’m the heels and perhaps even topping the 2019+ GT350

Definitely not every measure, since the 1LE still objectively beats it in straight-line performance tests. But I suppose when driving on the track, the PP2 and 1LE are equal and differences come down to the driver. Maybe the extra 20 horses can nudge it ahead?

 

[jake_zx2]

Not that spec-sheet racing matters a damn but the grip advantage is almost entirely due to tires. SS1LE has Supercar 3, the PP2 has 0.5" wider front wheel and also runs Cup2. The equivalent tire would have been the Supercar 3R.

The Mach1 is finally a car that can credibly go up against the SS1LE. At a mere $7000 more expensive price though. When the Mach1 is discounted 10% like all the other Mustang models on the lot, I'll consider buying one.

That is true that the tires do give the PP2 a decent advantage, but when we’re just talking OEM performance, I don’t think that matters too much

Definitely not every measure, since the 1LE still objectively beats it in straight-line performance tests. But I suppose when driving on the track, the PP2 and 1LE are equal and differences come down to the driver. Maybe the extra 20 horses can nudge it ahead?

I was going to bring that up, but figured it would be irrelevant since we’re talking road course performance. But regardless, the 2 cars are pretty much dead even in acceleration values when it comes to anything from a standing stop. The Camaro does whoop up on the Mustang in the 5-60 because RPMs are low from the start, and the extra torque from the Camaro definitely helps it in that RPM range. But if we’re being real here, how often are you really below 4000RPM in a road course? Not very often

The Mach 1’s extra 20hp and improved gearing will certainly help it in that aspect. It’ll still get beaten bad in the 5-60, but it’ll be faster in pretty much any other measure

 

[ChitownStang]

That is true that the tires do give the PP2 a decent advantage, but when we’re just talking OEM performance, I don’t think that matters too much



I was going to bring that up, but figured it would be irrelevant since we’re talking road course performance. But regardless, the 2 cars are pretty much dead even in acceleration values when it comes to anything from a standing stop. The Camaro does whoop up on the Mustang in the 5-60 because RPMs are low from the start, and the extra torque from the Camaro definitely helps it in that RPM range. But if we’re being real here, how often are you really below 4000RPM in a road course? Not very often

The Mach 1’s extra 20hp and improved gearing will certainly help it in that aspect. It’ll still get beaten bad in the 5-60, but it’ll be faster in pretty much any other measure

The 10-speed makes up for that in the 5-60 so I think it will be faster

 

[Cody5.0]

Still waiting on proof for this asinine comment. PP2 wasn't even able to deliver on the 1LE so not sure how this is possible.

My entire point was that the GT PP2 did everything better from a handling perspective but lacked the go power which was mainly due to gearing. So with a few more ponies and the revised ratios of the Tremec the Mach 1 should be siginifcantly "quicker" too which is the only reason the GT350 and 1LE bested the PP2 around a track.

 

[Porsche Dude]

My entire point was that the GT PP2 did everything better from a handling perspective but lacked the go power which was mainly due to gearing. So with a few more ponies and the revised ratios of the Tremec the Mach 1 should be siginifcantly "quicker" too which is the only reason the GT350 and 1LE bested the PP2 around a track.

One thing that I have noticed at Area 27 going up against the GT350, and it was suggested by a GT350 driver that I passed, that the torque range is low on the PP2 compared to the GT350, and it allows quicker exit speed out of the 2nd and third gear corners. It does have a lot of pull down low.

 

[Cody5.0]

One thing that I have noticed at Area 27 going up against the GT350, and it was suggested by a GT350 driver that I passed, that the torque range is low on the PP2 compared to the GT350, and it allows quicker exit speed out of the 2nd and third gear corners. It does have a lot of pull down low.

The gearing of the MT-82D4 is still to numerically low. The Tremec isn’t a lot better but anything will help.

 

[SmokinAces]

My entire point was that the GT PP2 did everything better from a handling perspective but lacked the go power which was mainly due to gearing. So with a few more ponies and the revised ratios of the Tremec the Mach 1 should be siginifcantly "quicker" too which is the only reason the GT350 and 1LE bested the PP2 around a track.

Ok Cody5.0, I somewhat follow what your saying. Not seeing the everything better handling wise your talking about thou. In all of the articles I’ve read, the GT350 posted faster lap times and was easier to manage on track. That’s all that really matters. Anything else is just speculation and/or opinion.

 

[jake_zx2]

The PP2 puts down more grip, but the GT350 definitely has better handling. The suspension tuning is just better

That’s why I’m really thinking the Mach 1 will be able to top that. Should have PP2 levels of grip but GT350 level suspension compliance as long as Ford got the tuning right (which, considering they said Ford Performance worked on the car, I’d assume that’s the role they played since the engine is untouched)

 

[TeeLew]

I’d agree that the PP2 and 1LE are on par though. That was my point in bringing this up, because someone had said that the PP2 cant even match the 1LE, which isn’t the case at all... because sometimes, it can even beat it

Don't sell the 1LE short. I autocross against a couple of them and they're bloody fast. That doesn't mean I would buy one, for any number of reasons, but they can flat hustle around a track.

 

[jake_zx2]

Don't sell the 1LE short. I autocross against a couple of them and they're bloody fast. That doesn't mean I would buy one, for any number of reasons, but they can flat hustle around a track.

To shit on a 1LE would be to shit on a PP2 or GT350. They’re certainly all excellent cars and all within spitting distance of each other in terms of performance. The 1LE is excellent in autocross because it’s so light

 

[SmokinAces]

Hey Jake_zx2, agree 100%. The only thing that’ll stop the Mach 1 from being top dog is Ford. They have a bad habit of over promising and under delivering. While I have high hopes for the Mach 1 , it’s my perception that gets in the way of me fully accepting it. Had this car been called a Boss302, I would have dropped everything, probably sold everything to acquire one. Mach 1 was mostly drag/street, Boss302 track and Shelby mostly track/collector In my mind. This was the language Ford used to communicate to us or maybe just me. I’m a Mustang guy and only a Mustang will due. But my Mustang has to be impressive.

 

[Cody5.0]

Hey Jake_zx2, agree 100%. The only thing that’ll stop the Mach 1 from being top dog is Ford. They have a bad habit of over promising and under delivering. While I have high hopes for the Mach 1 , it’s my perception that gets in the way of me fully accepting it. Had this car been called a Boss302, I would have dropped everything, probably sold everything to acquire one. Mach 1 was mostly drag/street, Boss302 track and Shelby mostly track/collector In my mind. This was the language Ford used to communicate to us or maybe just me. I’m a Mustang guy and only a Mustang will due. But my Mustang has to be impressive.

x2

I too would much rather have seen a return of the Boss.

Sponsored