Cup 2 tire failure - tear at inner lip inside rim

[MikeR397]

The only thing he said was possible low pressure but I’m thinking the TPMS sensor did not alert you.
He also asked “what did Michelin say”.

Can't be low pressure. My TPMS all work and I start all track sessions at 28-29 PSI cold to target 36 psi hot, and pay close attention to PSI.

I tried calling Michelin but got disconnected twice and could not get ahold of anyone but sales concierge people that could not help. I sent a detailed email to them and told them I had pictures to send as well and wished to discuss the issue. The automated form said 2-5 days for response. I'm gonna see if I can reach out to a michelin rep directly though some car executives I know here in SE MI as well.

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[MikeR397]

The 102y has been disposed of, but I have the 98y and looked again. The inside of the tire barrel is totally intact, this tear is on the outside of the wheel only, and it’s a full split going up to the chords about 75% around the tire circumference.

also, the date code on this is 0916 and I bought it 3 years old in early/mid 2019, so it’s not a old rotter.

 

[Buckwampum]

I’m doubting Michelin will be much help, as the tires left their distribution system and entered the world of eBay. If they replace the tires, I’d be astonished. I’d also become a lifetime buyer of Michelin tires found on eBay.....

I’ve read back through the thread and see that for possible causes you’ve eliminated as a cause the rim, damage incurred during mounting the tires, tire pressure loss while in service, and mechanical damage while in service (e.g. curbing the tire, debris on the track, hitting a huge pothole, etc.). I’m assuming no wheel weight mounting cut the bead.

About the only think that struck me was that the two failures happened just weeks apart. A possible commonality there is outside air temperature or track surface temperature, since they are in the same climate (?). I’m assuming nothing failed (permanently or transiently) in the car‘s alignment/steering/suspension that suddenly caused strange loads on the tire or allowed the tire sidewall to contact the chassis

That leaves a product defect, either from time of manufacture or exposure to something in the post-production environment. Is there any consumer website listing recalls for that make/model/date range of tire?

Like you said, I’d be concerned about safety. Perhaps constrain use of eBay tires to the rears or for scenarios with lower-intensity use.

 

[460Fred]

This is baffling for sure.

 

[JAJ]

Contact Michelin customer service and see what they say. I had a Sport Cup once that had a split in the bead and couldn't be mounted. They replaced it for me, even though I'd bought it online. If the tire is an OEM tire that was delivered to a car company, then they may not do anything because it's not a retail product.

 

[Cobra Jet]

While the failures are unfortunate, I see a lot of comments telling the OP to contact Michelin.

No offense to the OP - but as pointed out, the OP is buying OLD tires with date codes that are in excess of 3+ years, without any additional knowledge of how those tires were stored or even why some Seller on eBay ended up with quantities of overstock and is selling them at “bargain” prices.

The eBay seller probably ended up with overstock because of the date codes - it is a liability for ANY tire shop or normal retailer to sell tires that have over aged date codes, period. We’re not talking date codes that are 6mos to 1 year, we’re talking date codes in excess of 3 years. Also some of these eBay Sellers buy bulk lots of manufacturing defects and sell them at bargain prices as well (and they’re not going to tell the public what they are selling is defects).

Let’s take the scenario one step further:
OP bought said eBay bargain tires, is out on a public highway at cruising speeds (65mph+) and has a catastrophic tire failure resulting in a wreck where he has maybe injured himself and/or caused property damages and injuries to someone else. He can’t go after Michelin because he knowingly bought aged tires and took the risk driving on them. Even IF the tires were defective from the manufacturer, he still bought aged tires from a non-retail tire source and drove on them, fully knowing they had aged date codes on the sidewalls.

Point being - Michelin isn‘t going to back any warranty or even a manufacturing defect claim because these tires were not sold by a valid retailer and the date codes alone are well beyond their “prime” as being warrantable. Their printed Warranty also only applies if the tires were purchased from a Retailer and is also null and void if the tires were used in competition or track related events. If an accident scenario played out like the example, the OP would have no legal suit or recourse against Michelin either.

Reaching out to Michelin is pointless.

Sure there’s a ton of people who do the same with buying “NOS” tires, but look at the risk.

 

[Caballus]

All the very valid eBay facts aside. Speaking only of age. Isn't a 3 year old tire only 1/2 way through its warranted life? Again, not questioning the point made about the unknown source, only the age question.

"All MICHELIN® tires4 (both replacement and original equipment) come with a limited warranty for treadwear, as well as a limited warranty which covers defects in workmanship and materials for the life of the original usable tread, or for 6 years from date of purchase, whichever occurs first. Mileage treadwear warranties vary by tire line."

https://www.michelinman.com/tires/pilot/pilot-super-sport.html?bvstate=pg:2/ct:r

https://www.michelinman.com/generalWarranty.html

 

[Tomster]

All the very valid eBay facts aside. Speaking only of age. Isn't a 3 year old tire only 1/2 way through its warranted life? Again, not questioning the point made about the unknown source, only the age question.

"All MICHELIN® tires4 (both replacement and original equipment) come with a limited warranty for treadwear, as well as a limited warranty which covers defects in workmanship and materials for the life of the original usable tread, or for 6 years from date of purchase, whichever occurs first. Mileage treadwear warranties vary by tire line."

https://www.michelinman.com/tires/pilot/pilot-super-sport.html?bvstate=pg:2/ct:r

https://www.michelinman.com/generalWarranty.html

These days, if a tire is stored correctly, it is generally accepted that 10 years is the limit on a tire. I bought a set of closeouts for last track season that were (edit-I just looked at them) 3 years old. Zero issues. Would I track a 10 year old set? No, but they should be fine for a while longer.

 

[Caballus]

These days, if a tire is stored correctly, it is generally accepted that 10 years is the limit on a tire. I bought a set of closeouts for last track season that were (edit-I just looked at them) 3 years old. Zero issues. Would I track a 10 year old set? No, but they should be fine for a while longer.

Good to know. Never had closeout tires. So, I'm in learning mode.

In general, my thought is, if the tire failed, the only reason Michelin should care where it was bought is to track trends in case a distributor is improperly storing or handing--as a trend. Beyond that, improper storage and mishandling can be done a the buyer as well as the seller. So, if it shows no mishandling and has treadlife, I would think Michelin would replace it.

 

[Tomster]

Good to know. Never had closeout tires. So, I'm in learning mode.

In general, my thought is, if the tire failed, the only reason Michelin should care where it was bought is to track trends in case a distributor is improperly storing or handing--as a trend. Beyond that, improper storage and mishandling can be done a the buyer as well as the seller. So, if it shows no mishandling and has treadlife, I would think Michelin would replace it.

I honestly don't know what Michelin will do. Many manufacturers won't touch any liability with merchandise sold on eBay. I would be surprised if Michelin did anything with this. Don't get me wrong, I am hoping they do, but when I buy tires off ebay, (which I have) I don't really expect any kind of manufacturer support unless it is a recognized retailer using ebay to sell the items.

 

[Caballus]

I honestly don't know what Michelin will do. Many manufacturers won't touch any liability with merchandise sold on eBay. I would be surprised if Michelin did anything with this. Don't get me wrong, I am hoping they do, but when I buy tires off ebay, (which I have) I don't really expect any kind of manufacturer support unless it is a recognized retailer using ebay to sell the items.

I guess a related question would be, if I bought a set of tires from you, would Michelin still honor the warranty?

 

[Tomster]

I guess a related question would be, if I bought a set of tires from you, would Michelin still honor the warranty?

lets have a look at the warranty then.....

I came across this first off. Although you could argue HPDE is not racing or a competitive event, I would guess Michelin would look at the tire and immediately balk at the warranty based upon the wear. The tire has obviously been to the track.

here it is.....
Guarantee applies to up to 6 tires per customer. Guarantee applies only to tires that were purchased and mounted and does not apply to exchanged tires that were provided under this guarantee. The guarantee does not include the cost of valve stems. Tires that are damaged due to misuse or misapplication, road hazards, mechanical problems related to the vehicle, use in any racing-related activities, or competitive events, or tires that are removed from the original vehicle on which they were installed, are excluded from guarantee

 

[Caballus]

lets have a look at the warranty then.....

I came across this first off. Although you could argue HPDE is not racing or a competitive event, I would guess Michelin would look at the tire and immediately balk at the warranty based upon the wear. The tire has obviously been to the track.

here it is.....
Guarantee applies to up to 6 tires per customer. Guarantee applies only to tires that were purchased and mounted and does not apply to exchanged tires that were provided under this guarantee. The guarantee does not include the cost of valve stems. Tires that are damaged due to misuse or misapplication, road hazards, mechanical problems related to the vehicle, use in any racing-related activities, or competitive events, or tires that are removed from the original vehicle on which they were installed, are excluded from guarantee

Good info, but gray enough still to warrant holding onto some hope for the OP. Fingers crossed.

 

[Tomster]

Good info, but gray enough still to warrant holding onto some hope for the OP. Fingers crossed.

Of course, he's one of ours. I hope it goes his way.

 

[JAJ]

While the failures are unfortunate, I see a lot of comments telling the OP to contact Michelin.

No offense to the OP - but as pointed out, the OP is buying OLD tires with date codes that are in excess of 3+ years, without any additional knowledge of how those tires were stored or even why some Seller on eBay ended up with quantities of overstock and is selling them at “bargain” prices.

The eBay seller probably ended up with overstock because of the date codes - it is a liability for ANY tire shop or normal retailer to sell tires that have over aged date codes, period. We’re not talking date codes that are 6mos to 1 year, we’re talking date codes in excess of 3 years. Also some of these eBay Sellers buy bulk lots of manufacturing defects and sell them at bargain prices as well (and they’re not going to tell the public what they are selling is defects).

Let’s take the scenario one step further:
OP bought said eBay bargain tires, is out on a public highway at cruising speeds (65mph+) and has a catastrophic tire failure resulting in a wreck where he has maybe injured himself and/or caused property damages and injuries to someone else. He can’t go after Michelin because he knowingly bought aged tires and took the risk driving on them. Even IF the tires were defective from the manufacturer, he still bought aged tires from a non-retail tire source and drove on them, fully knowing they had aged date codes on the sidewalls.

Point being - Michelin isn‘t going to back any warranty or even a manufacturing defect claim because these tires were not sold by a valid retailer and the date codes alone are well beyond their “prime” as being warrantable. Their printed Warranty also only applies if the tires were purchased from a Retailer and is also null and void if the tires were used in competition or track related events. If an accident scenario played out like the example, the OP would have no legal suit or recourse against Michelin either.

Reaching out to Michelin is pointless.

Sure there’s a ton of people who do the same with buying “NOS” tires, but look at the risk.

Wow. Reaching out to Michelin makes a huge amount of sense. They're a company that takes care of their customers because it's good business.

The tire in question left Michelin bound for one of two destinations - an automotive OEM or the retail channel. The warranties are different between them, but both channels have warranties.

The fact that the tire ultimately ended up on Ebay is irrelevant. It's less than six years old, which is the best-before date for installing new tires. In short, it's still a new tire as far as Michelin is concerned. If it was mis-manufactured, they want the customer on a new one as soon as possible.

So, calling Michelin's 800 number and explaining what happened makes a ton of sense. What's the worst they can do? Say no. So there's nothing to lose by calling.

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