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Twin Turbo

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The caveat here is that even though Ford and GM co-developed the A10, and even though Ford was the development lead for the A10 (GM was development lead for the FWD A9) each company was free and clear to develop their own variants. In short, the A10 in the Camaro ZL1 is NOT the same A10 used in Mustangs or F-150s. It has significant engineering differences to manage the 650 lb-ft of torque (the real issue, not the hp) that are not present in the Ford A10. In fact, I believe the ZL1 A10 is unique to ZL1 and the Camaro SS A10 is more similar to the Mustang A10.
That's interesting. I figured there would be "beefing up" done for the ZL1 A10, but not so much that its effectively a unique box!

That being said, I'm still sure the A10 in the non-handling pack Mach 1 would be just fine for the handling pack when, as I said, it's just a matter of wider wheels n tires......especially as they gave it some upgrades (torque converter etc) for Mach 1.

I wouldn't be surprised if they offer the A10 with Handling Pack for the '22MY.
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shogun32

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I wouldn't be surprised if they offer the A10 with Handling Pack for the '22MY.
and needlessly lose an entire year's worth of high-margin Handling Pack sales? 6MT sales as percentage of model sales is dwindling fast and it wasn't big to begin with. Either Ford can't produce the Handling Package components in sufficient quantity (ie. the SWing) if they allowed it to be ordered with the A10 (imo highly unlikely), or it's Stupid Gone Wild over there in Marketing's "artificial model differentiation" working group.
 

OnThree

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OK, I admitted to overreacting to one of your earlier posts but come on. Do you really own a Mustang or are you just a C6G troll? It seems the only purpose of your posts is to engage real Mustang fans with your BS. You’re not interested in discussion because that requires a back and forth of ideas. All you want to do is tear down a car that isn’t even on sale yet.
You seem to being overly sensitive to my posts. My posts are echoing the same thoughts that multiple forum members are also saying so not sure why you feel the need to single mine out.

My profile pic is one of my cars. I'm an unbiased car enthusiast who has owned everything under the sun. I've owned Ford's, Chevy's, Toyotas etc etc. IMO this Mach 1 is a lazy attempt to sell another overpriced GT just like the Bullitt.
 

shogun32

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IMO this Mach 1 is a lazy attempt to sell another overpriced GT just like the Bullitt.
except this time the Mach1 has some actual content behind it unlike the "farce" that was the Bullitt. We'll have to wait and see as to how (ir)rational the price tag is and whether it merits "overpriced GT" or not.
 

302@12psi

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Perhaps they are "holding back" for the 2022-23 version of the Mach. Maybe the last year they will offer what most folks want, which I'm guessing is the handling package and the A-10.

Perhaps there was something in testing where the A10 wasn't keeping up the heat and demand the wider and better tires were creating. Doubtful but who knows. That makes more sense then Ford just saying "no" for the sake of saying no.

Had they offered the PP2 with a A10 I'd be all over it. I don't mind the M6 since it is a weekend car but it literally does everything worst than the A10.
 

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Bikeman315

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You seem to being overly sensitive to my posts. My posts are echoing the same thoughts that multiple forum members are also saying so not sure why you feel the need to single mine out.

My profile pic is one of my cars. I'm an unbiased car enthusiast who has owned everything under the sun. I've owned Ford's, Chevy's, Toyotas etc etc. IMO this Mach 1 is a lazy attempt to sell another overpriced GT just like the Bullitt.
Alright, maybe, probably, I am. But it's your tone. And that's something hard to do on a forum. You just come across as inflexible and unwilling to yield. It's just so negative. Maybe it's unintentional. You're certainly not alone in your POV.

So it's your opinion and you're right to express it. I just need to get over it and move on. Apologies. :like::beer:
 

302@12psi

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You are reading too much into my commment. I am simply saying that had Ford made the Mach 1 with 500+ HP (shouldn't be too incredibly hard to get from 460 (or 480) to 501), and provided the same options to A10 customer's, I would have been possibly interested had the car price started with a "5." That's it. It's has nothing to do with whether there are other options in that price range. I think Ford could have met my two criteria with a price starting with a "5". It was a stubborn, boneheaded decision not to offer the same options to automatic and manual customers, and simply lazy to just roll-out the same 480 HP as the Bullitt.
I'd venture to say the Gen3 is done power wise. I don't think they can get 500HP on 91 out of it...or at least not to a level they want and meet CAFE standards. The thing already makes power to high in the power band to be a great street car...at least with the M6.
 

TTown

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Here’s what I do not understand. Why is everyone fixated on a number that has yet to be confirmed? The 480 is projected, not definite. Why are so willing to beat up Ford for not doing something that hasn’t even been announced yet?

I do agree with the A10 and HP issue but how do not think Ford hasn’t already looked at this. Do you really think this was solely a decision by the bean counters? No, this was an engineering decision and I’m sure there is a reason for. Hopefully it will be worked out considering the amount of backlash the decision has received. How about we start this rumor. They are not using the A10 with the HP because they plan to put the DCT in it.
I'd venture to say the Gen3 is done power wise. I don't think they can get 500HP on 91 out of it...or at least not to a level they want and meet CAFE standards. The thing already makes power to high in the power band to be a great street car...at least with the M6.
Practically speaking, you could be right.
 

Bikeman315

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and meet CAFE standards
This is an excellent point. What if going to 500HP means having to add a gas guzzler tax. Who is will to pay $1-2K for 20 HP. They already added it to the Bullitt. Maybe now they can get to 480 without it on the Mach 1. Or maybe not. We just do not know yet.
 

martinjlm

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Perhaps they are "holding back" for the 2022-23 version of the Mach. Maybe the last year they will offer what most folks want, which I'm guessing is the handling package and the A-10.

Perhaps there was something in testing where the A10 wasn't keeping up the heat and demand the wider and better tires were creating. Doubtful but who knows. That makes more sense then Ford just saying "no" for the sake of saying no.

Had they offered the PP2 with a A10 I'd be all over it. I don't mind the M6 since it is a weekend car but it literally does everything worst than the A10.
Another reason could be if Ford is running at capacity for A10 production. I'm more than sure that this is the reason GM didn't add the A10 to Camaro (exc. ZL1) until 2019. Here's how Product Planners think (I was one for 20 years)
"Ok, I'm near capacity on A10....should I put these last couple thousand in an F-150 that returns $XX,xxx in profit per vehicle or in a Mach I that gets $X,xxx in profit per vehicle?"

GM went through that same exercise with Silverado / Sierra vs Camaro and trust me, it's a no-brainer. There's also CAFE consideration. A10 will help F150 contribution to CAFE a lot more than it will help Mustang contribution to CAFE.
 

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Ditch

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You seem to being overly sensitive to my posts. My posts are echoing the same thoughts that multiple forum members are also saying so not sure why you feel the need to single mine out.

My profile pic is one of my cars. I'm an unbiased car enthusiast who has owned everything under the sun. I've owned Ford's, Chevy's, Toyotas etc etc. IMO this Mach 1 is a lazy attempt to sell another overpriced GT just like the Bullitt.
Honest question...is the Bullitt considered a success?
 

Bikeman315

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define "success" and from who's viewpoint?
Cars.com is currently showing 40 new 2019 Bullitt's and 36 2020's. The stupid ass dealers have to take the blame for the leftover 2019's with their ADM's. So that leaves 36 cars in the country. I would have to say from the perspective of Ford and Bullitt owners the car was an unqualified success.
 

Ditch

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Cars.com is currently showing 40 new 2019 Bullitt's and 36 2020's. The stupid ass dealers have to take the blame for the leftover 2019's with their ADM's. So that leaves 36 cars in the country. I would have to say from the perspective of Ford and Bullitt owners the car was an unqualified success.
I inquired about ordering one before the car had been released with a local dealer and they were already talking markup. There is one not far for me now that’s about 7K under MSRP ...a 2019. I wound up getting a 2017 GT 350 that had been sitting in the showroom so long the battery was dead.
$1500 under sticker.
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