Rumor [Autocar]: 2023 Mustang will be AWD Hybrid V8 (in Europe Only)

[TTown]

The purists should fret not; it sounds like it'll still have a V8 that ticks with piston slap.

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[Hack]

I’m believe PCV stands for Positive Crankcase Ventilation.

Yes you are right.

 

[Vlad Soare]

I wonder how much the hybrid doohickey will add to the cost. The current GT is very expensive as it is. It's close to fifty thousand euros around here, which is Jaguar teritory already.

 

[Twin Turbo]

I wonder how much the hybrid doohickey will add to the cost. The current GT is very expensive as it is. It's close to fifty thousand euros around here, which is Jaguar teritory already.

A Jaguar F-Type with a 2.0 litre turbo 4-cylinder, maybe. The new F-Type V8 is more like 75k. Now, I'll admit, the new F-Type is more gorgeous than ever, but it deserves more engine than a 2 litre 4-pot.

 

[Vlad Soare]

I've been given a quotation of a little over fifty thousand euros for an XF with a 3.0 liter V6 petrol engine and RWD, which is certainly no slouch. Admittedly, that won't keep up with a Mustang in a drag race, but on the other hand in Europe we don't care about drag races as much as we care about comfort, refinement and build quality.
Competing with Mondeos and Astras is one thing. Taking on the big boys is another.
We'll see...

 

[marks]

For £54k (circa 62k euros) I can only get an F type with a 4 cylinder 2 litre engine with only the option being a silly flappy paddle thing. To get anything decent with the F Type you need to be spending £20k more and for that you'd be mad not to get a Porsche Cayman GTS, or similar. Different in US where have much more options.
The XF is a boring saloon and not in the same category as the Mustang.

 

[Mazman]

if there will be a price increase the question is how much.
Considering that the tax on owning the car will potentially be lower(due to the hybrid drivetrain) it might be cheaper in the long run.

 

[Vlad Soare]

The XF is a boring saloon and not in the same category as the Mustang.

It may be a saloon, but there's nothing boring about it, especially when it has the right engine.
Besides, let's not forget the second-hand market. That kind of money will get you a superb low-mileage BMW M4 in perfect condition, to name just one option.
I am willing to buy a GT at its current price, but had it been just ten grand more expensive I would have passed.

 

[marks]

You could put a 6.5 litre V12 in the XF (or most other saloons) and you would still not get the same buzz/enjoyment as you get from a Mustang. Yes, the second hand market is a different game.
The Mustang has and will always be an affordable car, I'm sure Ford will do their research and ensure any future car is at the right price point. Of course there are some things Ford can't control such as tariffs etc and we'll have to see how they play out.

 

[Vlad Soare]

You could put a 6.5 litre V12 in the XF (or most other saloons) and you would still not get the same buzz/enjoyment as you get from a Mustang.

Indeed, you would not. But the buzz you get from a Mustang is just one of many kinds. A special car can offer you buzz and enjoyment in many ways, none of which is inherently better than the others. For instance, speaking of powerful saloons, there's certainly a lot of enjoyment in fooling the other motorists into underestimating you and into thinking "oh, that's just a boring saloon, I'll have him for breakfast", then imagining their sheer astonishment when, two seconds later, they can't even see which way you went. My old Scorpio was a dull saloon, but boy was it so much fun leaving boy racers with hot hatches in the dust...
There's also one other kind of enjoyment, which comes from good engineering and craftmanship and build quality. It's nice when things just work. It's nice and enjoyable to own a car whose body panels align perfectly, a car which you can wash, or drive in heavy rain, without fear of water leaks, a car which leaves the factory with enough oil in the gearbox and in which the plastics don't rattle when you drive over a bump.

On this forum we're a bunch of Mustang enthusiasts, who appreciate the kind of buzz offered by a growly RWD coupé or convertible. So we're extremely prone to think of everything non-mustangy as 'boring'. But the truth is, in Europe we're just a tiny minority, and what's boring to us is practical and rational (and even enjoyable at that) to the vast majority of Europeans.

The Mustang has and will always be an affordable car, I'm sure Ford will do their research and ensure any future car is at the right price point. Of course there are some things Ford can't control such as tariffs etc and we'll have to see how they play out.

It was. It's not anymore. Now it's an expensive car. And not only is it expensive, but it even lacks creature comforts that much cheaper European Fords (and not just Fords, for that matter) have had for years. It's more than fourty thousand euros for just a V8 engine and a beautiful body. Add navigation and adaptive suspension and you get to fifty thousand in no time. That's properly expensive.
Is it worth it? Maybe. I used to think it was - after all, I did order one. Now I'm not so sure anymore, but that's a different story. Anyway, regardless of how I feel about it, I'm not sure many Europeans find it worthwhile now (how many GTs do we actually see around us?), let alone if it were even more expensive.

But who knows, I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. We'll see...

 

[marks]

On this forum we're a bunch of Mustang enthusiasts, who appreciate the kind of buzz offered by a growly RWD coupé or convertible. So we're extremely prone to think of everything non-mustangy as 'boring'. But the truth is, in Europe we're just a tiny minority, and what's boring to us is practical and rational (and even enjoyable at that) to the vast majority of Europeans.

Ill agree with that. I do often wonder how people can get enjoyment from a £50k boring grey Eurobox, especially ones with a diesel. Yes it may be fast but how often can you show this? Hardly ever, plus they generally sound ridiculous with popping exhausts. Although I can see why you would get one for practical reasons but I don't see why it would need to be fast. The Mustang is my weekend car, I have a boring Korean SUV for our daily!

 

[marks]

The Mustang only suits non boring people, you'd be happier in a diesel saloon. That's the great thing about the Mustang, it doesn't suit everybody.

 

[spectremotorsports]

I tried to justify my 2018 GT, talking about the excitement and fun filled nature of the car. But I never really warmed to it. It did nothing really well and when it was bad it was awful. I was happy when it went and wouldn't have another.

Why even post here then? This is a bit like having a terrible experience at a restaurant and then hanging about in the parking lot to tell people you didn't enjoy it....

 

[Vlad Soare]

Whenever I read about the Mustang's problems I think of Jeremy Clarkson. He often says that to him interesting cars are like interesting people, i.e. flawed in one way or another. That's why he loves Alfas or Lamborghinis, or why he finds an excitable dog that makes a mess of the house and requires lots of attention more rewarding than a feed-and-forget cat.
One episode of Top Gear featured an Italian guy who had built a custom car based on an old Alfa. When Clarkson asked him what some of the buttons on the dash did, he replied: "oh, nothing, those don't work. This is an Alfa. If everything worked it would be an Audi".
So I fully understand the idea of loving a special car for what makes it special, and ignoring its faults like we forgive our loved ones for their faults, or sometimes even love them more because of them.
I do get the idea. And I use it to console myself every time I stumble upon a thread discussing yet another basic flaw of the Mustang.
On the other hand, there's only so much one can forgive even a loved one. No matter how special a car may be, there comes a time when you've had enough, when it has one flaw too many and you can't stand it anymore.

 

[maddog1982]

If the car really will be a hybrid with AWD, I personally would have less than zero interest in it. First because a hybrid means it will be heavier and more complicated, and second, because either a hybrid and/or AWD means it will almost certainly only be available with an automatic transmission, and there will be no manual (I can't imagine cheapskate Jim Hackett spending the money to develop a stick for such a drivetrain combination).

I suspect that Ford, in Hackett's misbegotten cost-cutting obsession, will use a drivetrain from some other vehicle for the next generation Mustang. If it's an AWD hybrid, that's because some other vehicles will be using it. As the article said, it will be a shared platform with the Explorer and Aviator.

Gee, sounds like the perfect underpinnings for a sporty pony car - build it on the same platform as a SUV.

I'm old-school (and old...). I totally appreciate the need for fuel efficient cars for basic transportation. But for a fun car, I like it simple and pure. A prefer a naturally-aspirated V8 engine, RWD, coupled to an old-fashioned row-your-own manual transmission. I'm not afraid of a clutch pedal. I don't care if a computer-controlled 10-speed DCT can shift in thousandths of a second, or if a hybrid is a few seconds faster around the Nurburgring. To me, how a car feels to drive in the seat of my pants is much more important than the "numbers". I've found that many people who are hung up on 'numbers' don't generate them themselves. It just shows they can read road tests. Many people obsess about the 'numbers' to brag about them at their local gym or happy hour. I care more about how a car feels to drive, how much fun it is, how engaging it is. If it speaks to me.

For my admittedly dinosaur-like perspective, no hybrid or electric, automatic transmission car will ever have a soul. It's fine for transportation to save gas, but for pure fun, I'll stick with the old-school analog approach (big surprise).

Bloody hell that was like reading my mind, could not agree more there pal

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