Throttle House puts the 2020 GT500, Camaro ZL1 and Challenger Hellcat Redeye on the track

[02gtnh]

Then they shouldn't have published track numbers. It was their responsibility to assure their test was on the up and up, not Fords. At the very least they should have put on a new set of tires on and then ran the track numbers first, followed by the 1/4 mile and then the road test.

There is a reason every Motortrend comparison shows piles of tires in the background of their pictures.

They did say in the video that the track test was done first thing in the mourning so that all tires were the freshest they could be.

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[millhouse]

They did run it that way, track tests were done first thing in the morning. (They mentioned this in the video.)

Sounds like the Throttle House guys are pretty disappointed in the tire situation too, but sometimes you've got to run what you've brung.

They did say in the video that the track test was done first thing in the mourning so that all tires were the freshest they could be.

Again, still their responsibility. They can be disappointed. At least all of them agreed that the GT500 would have been the quickest had the tires not been grease balls.

 

[thill444]

They did run it that way, track tests were done first thing in the morning. (They mentioned this in the video.)

Sounds like the Throttle House guys are pretty disappointed in the tire situation too, but sometimes you've got to run what you've brung.

There are two sides to the story:
- If your going to spend the money to do a comparison like this (track time, insurance, travel, other logistics) you would think that replacement tires would be on the list of things to have on hand? Whether you supply them yourselves, the manufacturer does, or a sponsor.
- We don't know if Throttle House made it clear to Ford what the nature of the video was and that they were bringing in Randy Pobst (I am guessing they paid for his time/travel) for a timed, recorded media session. If they didn't shame on them. If they did, shame on Ford.

At the end of the day it's a cool comparison and I love the all the people who participated. As was mentioned the GT500 was easily picked as the better overall car and it was mentioned that the ZLE is really not something you want to drive on the street over the other two. I think that is a pretty big win for Ford, the vast majority of people buying these cars will drive them more on the street than the track.

 

[Arkarius]

Again, still their responsibility. They can be disappointed. At least all of them agreed that the GT500 would have been the quickest had the tires not been grease balls.

Either way it's a win for both cars. The GT500 is impressive for matching the 1LE with a softer suspension. The ZLE is impressive for keeping up with less power and for much cheaper. Even the Redeye was impressive for what it is.

Good times to have these kinds of options when looking for American Muscle.

 

[martinjlm]

This isn't on Ford, it's on the reviewers. You can't do road tests, burnouts, drag racing etc. all on the same set of tires and come away with accurate data. It was their responsibility to assure the test was as fair and equal as possible. They simply didn't wan't to spend the money on 3 sets of tires for 3 vehicles.

Gotta disagree here. They did everything they did to all of these cars on the tires they rolled in the door with. It was on Ford to provide them with fresh tires rolling in the door. And if they did provide fresh tires at start of test and the tires were that degraded by the time they did the track test, then that says a lot (not good) about what owners can expect from the special compound formula for the GT500 Cup 2s. If you can wear them low on the drive to the track to the point where you can’t get 100% out of them on the track, that would suck.

The other two (three counting the base ZL1) came in on tires of undisclosed condition. Did the owners put new tires on before the event? Where those month old tires? Week old? Same tires they came off the lot with? We don’t know. Ford had an opportunity to put their best foot forward and punted the tire fitment. That’s on Ford.

 

[thill444]

Gotta disagree here. They did everything they did to all of these cars on the tires they rolled in the door with. It was on Ford to provide them with fresh tires rolling in the door. And if they did provide fresh tires at start of test and the tires were that degraded by the time they did the track test, then that says a lot (not good) about what owners can expect from the special compound formula for the GT500 Cup 2s. If you can wear them low on the drive to the track to the point where you can’t get 100% out of them on the track, that would suck.

The other two (three counting the base ZL1) came in on tires of undisclosed condition. Did the owners put new tires on before the event? Where those month old tires? Week old? Same tires they came off the lot with? We don’t know. Ford had an opportunity to put their best foot forward and punted the tire figment. That’s on Ford.

We don't know the circumstances. These are press/media cars, perhaps they were just passed from one reviewer to another. Did Throttle House tell Ford the tires were shot before doing the shoot? Too many unknowns. Regardless it is what it is, gotta give the Camaro it's due. It's a track monster for the money.

 

[millhouse]

Gotta disagree here. They did everything they did to all of these cars on the tires they rolled in the door with. It was on Ford to provide them with fresh tires rolling in the door. And if they did provide fresh tires at start of test and the tires were that degraded by the time they did the track test, then that says a lot (not good) about what owners can expect from the special compound formula for the GT500 Cup 2s. If you can wear them low on the drive to the track to the point where you can’t get 100% out of them on the track, that would suck.

The other two (three counting the base ZL1) came in on tires of undisclosed condition. Did the owners put new tires on before the event? Where those month old tires? Week old? Same tires they came off the lot with? We don’t know. Ford had an opportunity to put their best foot forward and punted the tire figment. That’s on Ford.

I'm pretty strong against you on this point Martin. You should know, it's up to the testers to assure the methods are fair and repeatable. It's Fords responsibility to provide the car. If the GT500 shows up with a fresh set of racing slicks, do you think that would be acceptable? Ford doesn't control how these cars are tested, nor should they. When motortrend reviews these cars at the track, they put on fresh rubber. You have to do this for any type of valid comparison.

It was mentioned in the video that the tires were cooked before they tested them. I'm willing to bet the folks weren't expecting this...and fresh sport cup 2's aren't available on every corner, so they likely had no choice. Again, even Randy fully believed the GT500 would have been faster had it not been for the tires.

I will say, I fully believe the ZLE has superior rubber. Kudos for GM for working with goodyear and getting a set of great tires that are cheaper than the sport cup 2's.

 

[Arthonon]

I think the results between the Camaro and the Mustang mirror the results at just about every level - the Camaro is a little better on a track, the Mustang is a little easier to live with on a daily basis. The Mustang provides ZL1 1LE level performance without shaking your fillings loose, which is nice, but I can see people expecting more with the price difference, especially considering the Camaro comes with heated and cooled seats and the data recorder.

 

[martinjlm]

Throttle House: Hi Ford. We want to do a review of your GT500 CFTP

Ford: Cool! We’ve seen some of your work. Good stuff. When and where do you need it?

Throttle House: Anytime over the next couple weeks. We usually shoot our videos in Canada, but this time we’ll be at Willow Springs [bells should be going off in the mind of whomever is on the Ford end of that conversation]

Ford: Alrighty then, we’ll get back to you.

Notice that in this hypothetical exchange I did not mention anything about a head-to-head, even though that is what they do!!! How could Ford not know that?

I did not mention that Jason Camissa would be participating. I did not mention that Randy Probst would be participating, though it would be logical for Ford to ask who would be driving the car. Maybe they did, maybe they didn’t. But the second someone says “hey Ford, we want to borrow one of your track beast GT500 CFTP cars to go to Willow Springs” should their even be a question as to whether or not to put fresh tires on it? This is on Ford.

EDIT: I should note that when I had the GT350 for a couple days, I was expressly told that I could not take it to Milan or M1 Concourse.

 

[millhouse]

Throttle House: Hi Ford. We want to do a review of your GT500 CFTP

Ford: Cool! We’ve seen some of your work. Good stuff. When and where do you need it?

Throttle House: Anytime over the next couple weeks. We usually shoot our videos in Canada, but this time we’ll be at Willow Springs [bells should be going off in the mind of whomever is on the Ford end of that conversation]

Ford: Alrighty then, we’ll get back to you.

Notice that in this hypothetical exchange I did not mention anything about a head-to-head, even though that is what they do!!! How could Ford not know that?

I did not mention that Jason Camissa would be participating. I did not mention that Randy Probst would be participating, though it would be logical for Ford to ask who would be driving the car. Maybe they did, maybe they didn’t. But the second someone says “hey Ford, we want to borrow one of your track beast GT500 CFTP cars to go to Willow Springs” should their even be a question as to whether or not to put fresh tires on it? This is on Ford.

We'll agree to disagree on this. What happens when the reviewers do a 1 minute burnout as soon as they get a car and then continue on testing later. Ford can't control this...nor should they. It's not their responsibility. They aren't going to provide a fresh set of tires to every press vehicle request.

Again, it is the person who is doing the testing's responsibility to assure their test is as close to using the scientific method as possible. Major magazine publications do this....they use several sets of tires during their testing.

I honestly don't see how you put this on Ford.

 

[Erik427]

Throttle House: Hi Ford. We want to do a review of your GT500 CFTP

Ford: Cool! We’ve seen some of your work. Good stuff. When and where do you need it?

Throttle House: Anytime over the next couple weeks. We usually shoot our videos in Canada, but this time we’ll be at Willow Springs [bells should be going off in the mind of whomever is on the Ford end of that conversation]

Ford: Alrighty then, we’ll get back to you.

Notice that in this hypothetical exchange I did not mention anything about a head-to-head, even though that is what they do!!! How could Ford not know that?

I did not mention that Jason Camissa would be participating. I did not mention that Randy Probst would be participating, though it would be logical for Ford to ask who would be driving the car. Maybe they did, maybe they didn’t. But the second someone says “hey Ford, we want to borrow one of your track beast GT500 CFTP cars to go to Willow Springs” should their even be a question as to whether or not to put fresh tires on it? This is on Ford.

EDIT: I should note that when I had the GT350 for a couple days, I was expressly told that I could not take it to Milan or M1 Concourse.

That Mustang was a long term loaner.....I'm betting it had fresh tires when they got the keys so to speak.....

 

[thill444]

We are all just guessing. Should the car have had fresh tires for a head to head test? Absolutely. Was it the responsibility of both Ford and/or Throttle House to ensure that happens? Absolutely.

Whether it is Ford's fault or Throttle Houses's fault doesn't really matter at this point. It's just a flawed test with people questioning the result and even Pobst claiming the GT500 would have won due to the sheer straight-line speed advantage. It is what it is. I doubt anyone who wants to buy a ZLE, GT500, or Hellcat will have their mind changed by this.

 

[thill444]

That Mustang was a long term loaner.....I'm betting it had fresh tires when they got the keys so to speak.....

How do you know that? If true that would explain the tires because on the long term loaner Ford would not pay for tires, oil changes, etc.

 

[Arthonon]

...I doubt anyone who wants to buy a ZLE, GT500, or Hellcat will have their mind changed by this.

Exactly this. If Ford somehow managed to tweak Mustangs so they all had a slight performance advantage over Camaros at every level, I doubt very many of the people over at C6 would suddenly declare the Mustang superior and dump their Camaros for Mustangs.

There are a lot of factors that go into someone's vehicle preference, and performance is just one of them, and probably not at the top for for most people, or at least not requiring that it be the best performer, just that it have adequate performance.

 

[martinjlm]

That Mustang was a long term loaner.....I'm betting it had fresh tires when they got the keys so to speak.....

James from Throttle House just chimed in on the C6G version of this thread. I thought about copying and pasting his response here, but I think that is questionable etiquette. I’ll let him come over and say it directly. TLDR.,..He said Ford gave it to them with worn tires and that they were extremely disappointed in that. I stand by post #54.

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