Last year for V8 2024 (and Mach-E discussion) via Ford Performance conference call

[Gregs24]

For many of us, including me, we are not claiming the climate is not getting warmer, we are simply saying it has little if nothing to do with human activity. The earth's atmosphere has been getting gradually warmer since the end of the last ice age (with the exception of the Younger Dryas), and CO2 production has nothing to do with it. Please to some research into feedback mechanisms.

Saying higher CO2 emissions are causing slightly higher temperatures is like saying increased ice cream consumption during the summer time is the reason the murder rate always goes up in the summer time. Correlation does not always mean causation.

Now bring on the TT V6, 500 herspers 2024 Mustang.

Well I'm afraid I'm more inclined to believe peer reviewed research by climatologists and other bodies such as NASA when it comes to what is happening and what is causing it rather than your opinion - however informed you believe you are.

I think your climate change models are a bunch of BS. But, just in case, I hate cold weather and would welcome a little global warming.

My climate change models ! This is hilarious - I wouldn't be taken seriously creating any climate related models as I'm not a climatologist. Confusing weather and climate only demonstrates your complete lack of understanding I'm afraid.

Fortunately the opinions and evidence from real climatologists and other scientific bodies is what is used to make policy decisions in most of the world (even some parts of the USA where short term political gains are seen for what they are) and you two guys are very much in the minority now.

All a bit of thread drift really - but related to why the V8 is soon to be dead.

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[Gregs24]

Which tells me that 95g/km is an unrealistic target.



EV fans always fall back on that, either without realizing or refusing to realize that there's more to car enthusiasm than 0-60 and ET numbers.

Perhaps they should expand their driving experience to include something like a T-bucket powered by a Windsor SBF or a 327 Chevy. Better yet, a 'ported and relieved and stroked and bored' flathead with old-timey glasspacks.

Norm

Realistic or not that is the actual figure from 2020. It is only really achievable by hybrids and EV's, hence the lead up to the 2030 ICE ban. In the UK (using UK electricity production sources) and EV has a real output of around 50g/km - although the headline figure is 0g/km for the vehicle.

It obviously depends on what you compare (as in price range and performance bracket) There are plenty of hybrid and EV's that handle as well as they go and development here is huge. More and more EV's are now based on purpose designed floor pans rather than botched modified old ones.

Tesla's (despite their huge straight line performance) are not good examples of the breed. I'm a petrolhead but the death of the ICE is not the end of the world, just a slightly different world.

 

[Hack]

Well I'm afraid I'm more inclined to believe peer reviewed research by climatologists and other bodies such as NASA when it comes to what is happening and what is causing it rather than your opinion - however informed you believe you are.
My climate change models ! This is hilarious - I wouldn't be taken seriously creating any climate related models as I'm not a climatologist. Confusing weather and climate only demonstrates your complete lack of understanding I'm afraid.
Fortunately the opinions and evidence from real climatologists and other scientific bodies is what is used to make policy decisions in most of the world (even some parts of the USA where short term political gains are seen for what they are) and you two guys are very much in the minority now.
All a bit of thread drift really - but related to why the V8 is soon to be dead.

If you really believe this stuff I don't understand how you could buy a car with a gasoline engine. Seems unethical to me. Same goes for having kids or pets. A human being will emit so much carbon during their life! I think you don't really believe it and so you think it's ok to own cars with gas engines and you may even have kids and pets. I think it's good to have healthy skepticism when you are being told something and you realize there are people that benefit based on your behavior.

I don't really think the policy decisions are based on evidence. They are based on political maneuvering.

If it was all based on real science, you would see the models being changed as past predictions keep failing. For instance, when someone predicted that X percent of the polar ice caps would be gone by a certain date and that didn't happen - people in the scientific community should be going back to their models and fixing the models.

But instead what we are seeing is people just keep screaming that the world is going to end.

You come off as a reasonable person in your post. Is it reasonable for me to believe someone's prediction of a doomsday future when all their past predictions have been wrong?

This is why the V8 should not be killed. The V8 is far too important to allow it to go away unless we are certain that it must go away.

 

[Gregs24]

Really? This this is right up there with the fastest Tesla. And that is only a tune.

https://www.carscoops.com/2019/12/this-tuned-bmw-m5-has-850-hp-and-comes-with-a-warranty/

Fair enough I didn't didn't make my point very clearly. The issue when you get to those levels of performance is traction on road tyres so you pretty much hit a brick wall - that and what is actually something people want to experience. Sub 3 second 0-60 can be quite unpleasant on the human body for many people.

The big EV advantage is torque which in day to day driving is far more important than headline bhp figures. Plus that torque is available instantly from zero rpm.

I suppose the real extremes come with things like the Veyron / Chiron where ICE is at the limit of what can be achieved in a car (it took them ages to get past 1000bhp as well as a lot of money), and then compare that to 2000bhp Lotus Evija which is hugely less complex.

 

[Gregs24]

If you really believe this stuff I don't understand how you could buy a car with a gasoline engine. Seems unethical to me. Same goes for having kids or pets. A human being will emit so much carbon during their life! I think you don't really believe it and so you think it's ok to own cars with gas engines and you may even have kids and pets. I think it's good to have healthy skepticism when you are being told something and you realize there are people that benefit based on your behavior.

I don't really think the policy decisions are based on evidence. They are based on political maneuvering.

If it was all based on real science, you would see the models being changed as past predictions keep failing. For instance, when someone predicted that X percent of the polar ice caps would be gone by a certain date and that didn't happen - people in the scientific community should be going back to their models and fixing the models.

But instead what we are seeing is people just keep screaming that the world is going to end.

You come off as a reasonable person in your post. Is it reasonable for me to believe someone's prediction of a doomsday future when all their past predictions have been wrong?

This is why the V8 should not be killed. The V8 is far too important to allow it to go away unless we are certain that it must go away.

I was answering posts challenging global warming and it's causes / impacts. I' wasn't saying I wasn't a hypocrite for driving a V8!

I'm not a global warming campaigner but I do believe the work and research of those who do know what they are talking about. We are just about to buy a PHEV where most of our mileage will be in EV mode charged from our solar panels and the Mustang doesn't do a huge mileage. I love my V8 but is doomed. There are only two naturally aspirated V8 cars sold in the UK now (Mustang and Lexus ISF) Both will be gone soon. Even forced induction V8's and above will be gone as well over here.

If you look at the polar ice caps they are indeed vanishing - Greenland will indeed be green again in the summer.

 

[speedfrk]

The V8 is going away at about the same time that all the old guys are "going away", lol. Car manufacturers are masters at demographics and marketing. There will still be niche V8 cars available from Ferrari, Lambo, etc but mainstream car companies know that there is no money to be made in that market in the future due to very low volume. The best you can do is buy an extra GT now and store it next to your Stanley Steamer. But as battery and motor technology improves, current V8's will actually be slow. Technology marches on whether you want it to, or not.

 

[Twin Turbo]

As has been stated before.........a V8 isn't just about speed. It's as much about the sound and sensation that brings. And no EV will ever replicate that.

Now, lets assume the V8 really is going away. What will replace it? A twin turbo V6 perhaps? Is that really any "better" for the environment than a V8? I highly doubt it.

 

[obgod3]

new green deal will never happen so they will have to deal with poor decisions later....but the future is electric plain and simple.

 

[zackmd1]

As has been stated before.........a V8 isn't just about speed. It's as much about the sound and sensation that brings. And no EV will ever replicate that.

The point that is trying to be made here is that an EV does not have to replicate that.... An EV provides sensations (not really sounds obviously) in the form of massive accelerations (sometimes even brutal in the case of the new roadster). So the point is, EVs should not have to replicate the same sounds and sensations as a V8, they shine in other areas that people really need to experience to understand...

 

[zackmd1]

A twin turbo V6 perhaps? Is that really any "better" for the environment than a V8? I highly doubt it.

Just as you stated... A TT V6 still can not match the emissions targets for Europe. The targets in Europe were meant for one thing and one thing only, push the automotive industry to EV. It is too cost prohibitive to make an ICE platform compliant and even if you did manage to do that, the platform would still be on borrowed time. The cheaper route to take would be EVs.

That is why I think my theory (and again its just a theory with no sources to back it up) that the S650 will end up being a Mach E based EV. It just does not make sense IMO to make a new (by new I mean modified CD6) ICE platform with a very limited lifespan. I think you are likely to see that with almost every auto maker in the 2020s.

 

[EcoVert]

Electric cars may be the future but only for the those in higher income brackets. Most EV's are well into the 40k range in price higher than most can afford until they can get EV's into the upper teens in price and 200+ miles in range they'll never take over.

 

[zackmd1]

Electric cars may be the future but only for the those in higher income brackets. Most EV's are well into the 40k range in price higher than most can afford until they can get EV's into the upper teens in price and 200+ miles in range they'll never take over.

Not looking at the whole picture. When you remove a monthly cost of gas, people can suddenly afford higher MSRP vehicles.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/t...-cheaper-to-own-than-toyotas-camry-2019-04-17

An EV doesn't have to be dirt cheap to succeed and be cheaper in the long run than an ICE vehicle. That being said, EVs in the mid 20s should be coming very soon and will be the true mass market vehicles.

 

[Hack]

I'm not a global warming campaigner but I do believe the work and research of those who do know what they are talking about.

So did you also believe them in the past when they predicted things that didn't end up happening? And you keep believing them?

 

[EcoVert]

Those people who are buying a Focus or a Corolla or a Sentra are not buying high price EV's

 

[zackmd1]

So did you also believe them in the past when they predicted things that didn't end up happening? And you keep believing them?

Surprise. Predictions and estimations are not that accurate.... Doesn't mean the science behind it is false....

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